If you’ve read enough of my posts you know that I’m not too concerned with GTO play and am comfortable playing exploitable poker with the assumption that my opponents do not adequately adjust.

That being said I am wondering what you GTO enthusiasts do in situations where you’re near absolute top of your range but villain is taking a super nutted line. ExAmple:

Hero and villain both solid TAG image, 200bb effective stacks

Villain raises CO to 40, Hero calls BB with A7s

Flop: AAKdd check check

Turn 7 hero bets 60 villain calls

River 3d Hero bets 120 villain raises to 300 Hero raises to 750 villain jams all in

***
This is the best hand I can have here but I also have a bluffcatcher. Do you GTO guys just always call it off in this spot?

What do you do with A3, AQ-AT?

Villain is jamming $1100ish more on river? People never take a check back flop/peel turn/4b jam 1.5x river lines without nuts

I’d overbet river the first time around


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you mix up “exploitable” and “suboptimal”
Anyway he can have worse so I’d just call

I have played a lot of hands of NLHE and I mean a lot. I don't know if I could find a hand where someone (not insane) 4 b bluffed the river all in for 200bb+

Can you explain the difference?

I don’t see how it’s suboptimal if nobody takes advantage. I believe I’m playing optimally (for my own personal abilities) Actually

Anyway you play a GTO strategy right? Is that why u call here? Because you believe it makes you unexploitable?

It’s way worse for your we to fold here (I think) and have him end up w kk or 33 or a3 or 77 (rare)
and there’s more combos of hands that could conceivably value shove than hands you lose to. And the a blocker means alot. Folding here would be pretty silly. Sure you lose sometimes but when your looking to call down and you beat a good enough % of potential value hands you rly don’t wanna be doing much folding.
And who knows it’s live 2/5 he could be tooling stoned drunk or not even as solid as you think and end up w aq (have seen worse from what I thought to be solid regs)

I like the general question but this is a bad example. If I'm villain with A3 here, I'm treating it like the stone nizzle. Villain's first raise on the river can be literally any flush or small chance of AJ/AQ that he decided to play tricky. From his perspective, your 3bet means threes full, sevens full, A7, A3. For Villain to be flatting your 3b with his A3 combos, he has to give you credit for being able to put 42% of your stack in with sevens full and then fold to a jam.

This is never ever a flush, 33 or 77.
This is gonna be AK at higher frequency, A7/A3,
If villain is at least a bit decent.

I don't mind exploitative play in spots that don't occur that frequently.

River 4 bets are rare. Overfolding this spot will not make much difference to your bottom line in the long run. Calling down is not because you want to defend yourself against bluffs. That is lol logic in river 4 bet spots in live poker. Only call down if you think he is over playing worse hands like kings full or a3.

Inb4 villain raise 4 bets 77

Yeah this is really what I’m getting at.

I folded bc ive played a zilllion hands and this is never ever a bluff (and don’t know what villain had he didn’t show).

I was just wondering whether a player applying a GTO strategy would just sigh call 100% of the time here no matter what simply because they are at their top of their range and want to protect their range from being exploited.

In retrospect I think I should call with A7 and fold everything worse. Problem is that I still think I’m usually losing, sometimes chopping, never winning so idk. I think I need to be deeper to fold A7 maybe.

Only 1 combo of A3s left. He ain't opening A3o in CO (solid tag)

3 of AK still alive.

Unless he is 4 bet shoving kk, you made a good nitty fold imo. Although calling can't be terrible. Since you need him to spazz/over value only 1 more combo to make a profitable call.

its just such a huge disaster to fold the best hand here that you need to call

Lolposting

Is there any scenario where you would fold the very top of your range?

If we were 5k deep and he overshoved river is this still a call?

yea when he shoves for more and offers you worse price to call and the larger the bet the less hands you need to defend with.

Vs some live guy and assuming im rolled for the game and trying to play optimal its still a snap 5k deep here kkk/777/333 are all common value shoves to run into, and the a blocker is a pretty massive here. sometimes you lose and it sucks but youll end up with the best hand when the

The main thing is that we dont have a bluff catcher here we beat quite a few potential value shoves so its just a super easy call. As i said here its a pretty big disaster EV wise to fold the best hand.

I would never expect a decent opponent to 4b value shove river with 33/77/KK, that seems really bad. Also expect KK to bet 3 times a decent percent of time.

Good fold unless you’re playing with some sicko who turns K3s into a bluff


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly just run pio. If you’re playing 5/10 and above more than a few days a week and won’t spend 300 and not grinding pio at least as much time or more than you’re grinding 2p2 your not doing any favors for yourself

Ofc it's mathematical call and yes opponents should v-bet slightly thinner than just lol-nuts. You don't need pio to tell you that folding your whole range is bad.

Also your average opponent doesn't play like pio so their whole range starting from the flop check range is different. Real players are much more likely to slowplay AK here. You can force that in pio but average simulation doesn't take that into account.

It's not a piosolver world... yet.

Given the differences in ranges, I don't think you should 3-bet the river.

Cmon, really? Second nuts is well ahead of his raise/call-3b range. It's not like his line before the 4b doesn't make perfect sense with 33 or A3.

Yeah, a bit too tight tbh.

If the villain slowplays close to 100 % of AK on the flop, A7s is more of a call.

There are very few A3s combos left (2), we block 77 (1) and 33 is a pretty badly played to get here like this.

But

that requires also villain to be good enough to recognize that betting 33 on the flop is fine as is folding it to the turn bet. If the villain is good enough to figure this out, he/she won't be slowplaying anything near 100 % of the AK.

Grunch 200BB deep I prob call all my Ax boats and fold AQ-AT...mis-read river action...still calling A7

I had one of these top of your range spots come up the other day... tighter player opens LJ 30, I call with 8d8s from CO, BTN calls and BB calls.... flop Qd8h3c, LJ bets 50, I call, BTN (good reg) raises 250, folds back to me and I call...turn 5d I check, V bets 700, I call, River 4d, I check, V bets AI 5000 effective...we are the top of our range (maybe JdTd), but is this ever not a flush from a solid reg?

Yeah pretty much this. Although I will say there are villains I play with that I'd fold river as played. But I have 100s+ hours of playing with them and know they would never show up with anything but AK. But folding here is an INSANE exploit. He could absolutely have have worse for value. Unless you have a crazy amount of history with villain and have very specific reads that he would only call A3, KK, 77, instead of jamming, folding is crazy lolbad.

I'm not looking to fold this vs 99% of players.

PS I disagree with lolposting if we were 5k deep. I think it becomes a lot closer to an exploitable fold then. It heavily removes those value hands he could have when we're 2k deep. I mean theory wise it's still a call but I'd be folding a lot there 5k deep.

I mean yea 5k deep it get a little dicier. I might not find a 3b otr