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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 03-16-2019, 11:53 AM   #1
DumbosTrunk
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Shot taking 5/10

Hi,

Play at MGMNH around 150 hours/month. Moved up to 2/5 full time last month and am doing very well so far ($92/hr. over 100 hours - lol small sample size but whatever, I'm no fish). Feel quite comfortable there. Always buy in for the min ($300). Move down to 1/3 when I encounter headwinds early on in a session. My BR is around $25k. Took me around 1,500 hours to move up to 2/5 full time (about a year).

When should I consider shot-taking 5/10? From the looks of things the player pool in that game is much more reg-infested than the larger and more variable 2/5 pool. I would short-stack at 5/10 as well ($600).

Is it worth it to move up from 2/5 to 5/10 - now or ever - when I'll be playing with much better players on average? Also note than my casino doesn't spread 5/10 that often. One table goes every other day or so. There are always at least 6-10 2/5 tables going.

Thanks,
DT

Last edited by DumbosTrunk; 03-16-2019 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:04 PM   #2
Ayo123
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

I would just build up to 2/5 max buyin. Also would be buying in for at least 500 with 25K.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:34 PM   #3
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Why not just buy in 600 at 2/5. In general the lower the stakes the weaker the opponents, in this is even more apparent the deeper you are.
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:01 PM   #4
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Why are you buying in for the min if you’re so great
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Old 03-16-2019, 04:20 PM   #5
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Just what I normally do...I guess it’s a comfort-level thing. I don’t see huge benefits to being super deep to be honest. You don’t get quads against top boat very often.
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Old 03-16-2019, 05:51 PM   #6
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

If that's what you're waiting for your doing it wrong. Most of my double ups are people trying to bluff me off top pair, hitting something against an op, or just someone trying to hero my overbet river shove. The funny thing is I seem to never get it in when I set over set someone.
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Old 03-16-2019, 08:32 PM   #7
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Originally Posted by TimeBomb View Post
If that's what you're waiting for your doing it wrong. Most of my double ups are people trying to bluff me off top pair, hitting something against an op, or just someone trying to hero my overbet river shove. The funny thing is I seem to never get it in when I set over set someone.
If thatís the case in your games then our experiences are just very different. My money comes from sets mainly and to a lesser extent OPs.
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Old 03-16-2019, 09:22 PM   #8
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Have a hard time believing you aren’t just running hot based on how you’re talking. With live raise sizes and multi-way pre, getting in 300 in 2/5 game is nothing.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:35 PM   #9
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Have a hard time believing you arenít just running hot based on how youíre talking. With live raise sizes and multi-way pre, getting in 300 in 2/5 game is nothing.
Fish on a heater
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:11 AM   #10
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Just what I normally do...I guess it’s a comfort-level thing. I don’t see huge benefits to being super deep to be honest. You don’t get quads against top boat very often.
well no **** and you'll get top boat into quads just as often but this isn't why you should buy in deep.

honestly based on the things you've said in this thread it's pretty clear that you aren't some deep thinking poker crusher (not trying to insult you) and you are in fact better off short buying and you can play a cookie cutter strategy and still have an edge (nowhere near 92 an hour in 2/5)

the op would do way better with 600 in 5/10 nl than he would in 2/5 nl with 600

Last edited by borg23; 03-17-2019 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:43 AM   #11
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Thanks!
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:32 PM   #12
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

There's nothing wrong with taking shots when you feel like it, but I think you know that you aren't ready to grind 5/10+ seriously.

If not, deep stack nl isn't about maximizing quads v top boat as much as it is applying max pressure and getting max value in marginal spots that weak regs don't bother with (or quite comprehend yet in their journey). Stick to beating up 2/5 and see how the regulars you consider very good or annoying deal with you after you have a substantial amount of history. Generally, you'll wind up paid off much less and bluffed/valueowned way more and your sick winrate will nosedive. That is when you should think more about moving up and what you need to have under your belt to avoid getting absolutely smashed.

I'll admit that this is mostly applicable for full time professionals. Some people have the money to dump at higher limits in order to try and learn the nuances that differentiate the standard play at each level, but holes in your game will be glaring to people that are much better than you, really quick.

With all that being said, if there is an insane 5/10 game running you should take shots, nit it up, absorb what is happening, that's the most +EV way to learn, just don't kid yourself and start 5/10 lists on weekdays because you won 200bb the night before

GL out there.
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Old 03-17-2019, 02:40 PM   #13
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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There's nothing wrong with taking shots when you feel like it, but I think you know that you aren't ready to grind 5/10+ seriously.

If not, deep stack nl isn't about maximizing quads v top boat as much as it is applying max pressure and getting max value in marginal spots that weak regs don't bother with (or quite comprehend yet in their journey). Stick to beating up 2/5 and see how the regulars you consider very good or annoying deal with you after you have a substantial amount of history. Generally, you'll wind up paid off much less and bluffed/valueowned way more and your sick winrate will nosedive. That is when you should think more about moving up and what you need to have under your belt to avoid getting absolutely smashed.

I'll admit that this is mostly applicable for full time professionals. Some people have the money to dump at higher limits in order to try and learn the nuances that differentiate the standard play at each level, but holes in your game will be glaring to people that are much better than you, really quick.

With all that being said, if there is an insane 5/10 game running you should take shots, nit it up, absorb what is happening, that's the most +EV way to learn, just don't kid yourself and start 5/10 lists on weekdays because you won 200bb the night before

GL out there.
Yeah, I don't make my money off the good regs by any means unless I cooler them in e.g. set over set situations. Money mainly comes from the fun players. I generally avoid the good regs if I can and play very cautiously with them post-flop if we wind up in a hand together, whether IP or OOP.

I know for a fact I don't maximize value in certain spots, which better players would, so I know I'm still learning. On the other hand, I do go for thin value in spots that some would not, so that's good.

I'll stick to 2/5 for the next few months and if things continue to go really well (and I feel ready) try a 5/10 game that looks good one day.

Thanks for the feedback!
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Old 03-26-2019, 03:43 PM   #14
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

After playing a lot of 2/5 at the MGM in the last month i decided to take a shot at 5/10. I had never played 5/10 before and I just wanted to see what was up. Out of the 8 other players there were two obvious fish and and other 6 players didn't have any glaring leaks. The game ran deeper than 2/5 in terms of BBs and the regs were 3 betting and 4 betting noticeably more than in the 2/5 games.

It sounds like you have at least a decent understanding of poker - especially at shorter stack sizes. I say test it out 5/10 just for fun with $600+, play tight, and fold marginal pots pre flop. If you play with that style with your current understanding it does not sound like you are going to get severely outplayed by the regs at 5/10 for it to be a bad choice. With that said, if you can't spot if a fish within the first 1-2 orbits, I suggest leaving.
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Old 03-26-2019, 04:32 PM   #15
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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After playing a lot of 2/5 at the MGM in the last month i decided to take a shot at 5/10. I had never played 5/10 before and I just wanted to see what was up. Out of the 8 other players there were two obvious fish and and other 6 players didn't have any glaring leaks. The game ran deeper than 2/5 in terms of BBs and the regs were 3 betting and 4 betting noticeably more than in the 2/5 games.

It sounds like you have at least a decent understanding of poker - especially at shorter stack sizes. I say test it out 5/10 just for fun with $600+, play tight, and fold marginal pots pre flop. If you play with that style with your current understanding it does not sound like you are going to get severely outplayed by the regs at 5/10 for it to be a bad choice. With that said, if you can't spot if a fish within the first 1-2 orbits, I suggest leaving.
I was on the list last weekend but I left before I was called. It looked like a good game. Thx.
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Old 03-28-2019, 01:03 PM   #16
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Agree with MGMfish on the 5/10, but I also think that if you are beating the 2/5, you should definitely be buying in as deep as possible. What's the fun of doubling up early when you only have $300? And it's much easier to gain respect when you are deeper. NLHE just seems to be much more profitable when you start with at least 100bb.

The hardest part about 5/10 is probably just the comfort level and nerves
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Old 03-28-2019, 03:13 PM   #17
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

gonna have to echo the "wtf buying in short?" chorus.... doesn't seem to add up. Seems like the next logical step should be buying in deep at 2/5 before shortstacking 5/10...but I'm the type that prefers the play to be the deeper the better.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:04 PM   #18
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Agree with MGMfish on the 5/10, but I also think that if you are beating the 2/5, you should definitely be buying in as deep as possible. What's the fun of doubling up early when you only have $300? And it's much easier to gain respect when you are deeper. NLHE just seems to be much more profitable when you start with at least 100bb.

The hardest part about 5/10 is probably just the comfort level and nerves
So true. Sat at 5/10 (25 mandatory straddle) a couple nights ago and after I lost $40 in the first orbit just bleeding out I was looking for the exit.
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Old 03-28-2019, 04:14 PM   #19
Ayo123
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Um don’t play 5/10/25
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Old 03-28-2019, 06:35 PM   #20
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

LOL. I play 1/3/$10 where you don't see a flop for less than $35
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Old 03-28-2019, 07:17 PM   #21
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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LOL. I play 1/3/$10 where you don't see a flop for less than $35
It was a stupid big game. Opens were to $100. 3! to $500. People were stacking off pre with TT. No one had more than 150bb. I don't know why anyone was sitting there tbh.
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Old 04-01-2019, 11:54 AM   #22
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

Playing at 5/10 with that bankroll is stupid.
Playing 5/10 with a $600 stack is stupid.
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Old 04-01-2019, 07:29 PM   #23
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Originally Posted by DumbosTrunk View Post
Just what I normally do...I guess itís a comfort-level thing. I donít see huge benefits to being super deep to be honest. You donít get quads against top boat very often.
If your only comfortable buying in for the min, and don't see any benefits being fully stacked (there's more to playing for a living than waiting for the nuts to stack fish), then you're clearly not ready to move up to 5/10. I would even suggest staying at 1/3 until you're able to buy in for the max.

When we raise pre we hardly ever flop monsters. Most of the time you need to know how to play with nothing and maneuver out of spots by putting your opponents on ranges (it's not about "getting quads against top boat") so with no ammo you're basically playing a game of fit or fold.
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Old 04-17-2019, 09:40 PM   #24
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

The 5/10 pool is way more competitive and will 3B far more and in hard to exploit ways and it will take you a -ev period to adjust to the game and potentially bankroll crushing variance. In a lot of markets the 5/10 must move games with newer amateur players are the only ones worth playing. So my advice is to stick to whatís working safely and keep grinding hours. Consider taking up PLO or 5 cars at MGMNH where you can still buy-in for $300? That game can get huge too.
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Old 04-18-2019, 12:30 AM   #25
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Re: Shot taking 5/10

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Just what I normally do...I guess itís a comfort-level thing. I donít see huge benefits to being super deep to be honest. You donít get quads against top boat very often.
But when you do you need to have as much money as possible in front of you.

Your hourly rate will thank you in the longest of long runs.
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