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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 10-14-2018, 06:01 AM   #1
MOnes
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Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

Last weekend I wandered into the Wynn in Macau and ended up playing some NL at their (US equiv) 10-20 table. The smaller stakes (5-10) had a huge waiting list and I limited time. Between the limited amount of cash I was carrying and my usual preference to play a bit lower, I was reasonably tight during the session and the bigger stacks to my left certainly took notice (they routinely 3-bet my open raises and attacked the flop and turn when I did call).


About 3 hours into the session I open raised to 3x the BB with AA from the cut-off and the button (a LAG from Europe) 3-bets to 9x then the SB (a LAG from Asia) 4-bets to 25x and it folds to me. I started the hand with about 135 BBs and I decided to flat the 4-bet and the button calls too.


The flop is AKQ.


The SB thinks a while then leads out for 15x the BB. I eventually decide to call, and the button decides to call too.


The turn is 4.


The SB thinks a while again then shoves all-in for about the same 95 BBs I have remaining. I go all in. Surprisingly the button (who has us both covered) goes all-in too.

My questions: 1) should I have raised either pre-flop or the flop bet? 2) should I have called the turn?

Given my image I sought to get more value by under-representing my range but what's the case for playing more aggressively?
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:25 AM   #2
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

Depends on stack sizes but in no universe should you not be ripping this flop.
Flop hits villians range and most players aren't capable of folding big hands unless they are playing super deep.
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Old 10-14-2018, 11:55 AM   #3
Nordling89
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

great flop for a ship while people are still horny and it hits them pretty hard. no point giving them time and opportunity to make decisions twice by playing a turn which can bring a few action killers.

If you're not playing the game regularly with these people don't need to over complicate your decision making process

p.s assuming btn had like j9 of hearts

Last edited by Nordling89; 10-14-2018 at 12:00 PM.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:11 AM   #4
MOnes
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

p.s assuming btn had like j9 of hearts [/QUOTE]

Don't know what the button had as he mucked but your assumption feels right as the river was Q
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Old 10-16-2018, 07:48 PM   #5
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

The SB leads 1/5th pot?? You could raise that with any two cards, and absolutely MUST raise with top set on such a coordinated board.

Preflop... depends on your mood whether to flat or 5b, but since you're playing above your normal bankroll you should probably just sigh-push instead of trying to outplay 2 people postflop.

The river saved your bacon here but if it was a blank you'd kick yourself for misplaying both streets.
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Old 10-17-2018, 01:37 AM   #6
MOnes
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

Yup, guessing you're right about the river and certainly would be kicking myself. I got too caught up trying to triple up once I decided to flat preflop (since when I shoved preflop earlier with a smaller stack my opponents snap folded).
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Old 10-17-2018, 07:46 AM   #7
Regurge
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

Given the game description and dynamics I like your play every street

Preflop gto is mixed strategy. I can get on board with exploitative 100% flat given villain description will try blow you off everything
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Old 10-17-2018, 11:25 PM   #8
MOnes
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

In the moment it was very read dependent. I'm sure I looked/was nitty to the SB villain but button coming along has made me think whether calling the turn shove was EV+. Assuming he calls and has a flush or straight I have 10 outs max and the pot would be paying about 3.25 to 1. The small % of the time that villain has flush or straight and button folds then the same outs but pot is only laying 2.25 to 1. Pot odds aside I did think SB was trying to blow me off and button either knew that too (and had something to catch a bluff) or had a hand like KQ or possibly KJ/AQ/AJ. I don't see J10 in his range with his flop call.
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Old 10-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #9
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

I wouldn't say it's a "small" chance you're behind on the turn, with 2 players and endless combos of JT & connected hearts they could have.

Do think the call on the turn is the correct decision though, in between the ~9 outs you have + the moderate odds you're still ahead at that point.

The problem is on the flop IMO. KK/QQ/AK/AQ/KQ and probably even AJ/AT are never folding to a raise on that flop, so you're slowplaying them for nothing. Whereas you're letting flush-draws and even straight draws play perfect against your hand.
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Old 10-26-2018, 03:55 AM   #10
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Re: Raise at Some Point or Too Passive??

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant2 View Post
I wouldn't say it's a "small" chance you're behind on the turn, with 2 players and endless combos of JT & connected hearts they could have.

Do think the call on the turn is the correct decision though, in between the ~9 outs you have + the moderate odds you're still ahead at that point.

The problem is on the flop IMO. KK/QQ/AK/AQ/KQ and probably even AJ/AT are never folding to a raise on that flop, so you're slowplaying them for nothing. Whereas you're letting flush-draws and even straight draws play perfect against your hand.
pretty much this
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