Villain is Euro pro reg. Nothing specific. $4.5K
Hero is young relatively unknown, probably looks like thinking TAG based on not playing that many hands but showing aggression pre. $6.5K (up 2k)

10/25 - $4.5K effective

CO active reg opens to 75, SB main villain 275, hero QQ BB 800.
CO fold, V 1,800. Hero?

Maybe not that interesting but just hate these freaking spots pre where you’re winning all the small/med pots then seem to always lose the big one pre.

Is this just variance and flatting the 3 bet or 5 bet is weak?

Thanks.

Theory wise if we are playing a 4bet or fold strategy in this spot (which I think is good) call facing the 5bet and this looks good. Readless in your spot I would also 4bet and now call. 100bb deep this is an easy 4bet/call a jam. 180bb it get's trickier.

Don't worry about feeling lost/annoyed at these types of spots; these spots suck. Exploitatively this isn't a great spot and folding QQ vs the 5bet here can't be that bad. FWIW if CO was a rec player I'd 100% just call the 3bet but vs 2 regs I don't like having a cold call range.

So call the 5 bet and then get it in on non-A/K boards?

I jammed pre... which I don’t feel great about.

FWIW I don't know 180bb play but 200bb++ deep as SB I'm not having a 5bet range; I'm continuing as a call or fold. As the 4bettor facing a 5bet, I'm definitely not having a 6bet range. Of course this can change for exploitative reasons.

I think I could find a fold here. As described, I probably ship AKs AA KK.

I'd shove QQ if stack sizes were a bit smaller, say 3500.

Little less pre 2.2x is what you’re looking for here
Don’t mind either of the 3 options shoving is prolly the worst one tho

As we start getting deeper these "bigger" 4bet sizings start getting used more often, even IP.

Yea but we’re not that deep if it was like 3-500 bb deep I think larger 3b size makes
Some more sense but that this stack depth and this holding going smaller can get more of his range to continue that we beat instead of just making it to where ak can cram and make our life suck as well as kk/qq-
and he can fold all his worse pairs and broadways that are playing an std 3b/f strat vs lp opens

Lol fold. If you want to play correct...you can call and commit on safe flops. Dont think it adds much ev to your strategy. But it'll help you sleep better.

Disclaimer: I only play these stakes in my masturbatory fantasies.


You're getting 2.6 to 1 to call and see the flop in position. Original raiser was an active player in the CO so you can't give his 4-bet THAT much credit to fold QQ preflop. For direct odds against a higher pocket pair all-in preflop you need like 4.56 to 1 if I'm not mistaken so even assuming the worst it's not that that terrible to call. I just don't see how you can fold spots like this consistently and not get exploited by good players which I'm sure will be the norm at stakes like this. Coolers suck but the problems stemming from the cure of tightening up too much is going to be worse than the coolers were.

I prefer a call to a jam because if you're young and unknown he probably thinks you aren't rolled for these stakes and your 6-bet jam is going to be weighted towards value and this is the lower end of your value range so he'll probably play pretty well against that, getting him off 10-10 and JJ and probably AQ would be terrible as would getting called by KK and AA so I like a call and you can reassess on the flop in position especially if there's an A or K on the flop. I'd think he's probably planning to barrel his preflop semi-bluffs. I don't think he's folding AK but maybe.

Unlucky that you were probably the only person at the table who didn't know how this reg plays but this was literally always AA or KK

What do you think a TAG's cold 4 betting range is vs cutoff open + sb 3 bet?

What is sb's 5 bet range in this situation?

Standard 4b range is like ajs+ jj+ here and some 99/1010 at low %

true dat

Then what's the sb 5 bet range ?

FWIW I think a valid strategy 200bb+ deep is to have no 5bet range in this spot as sb... at specifically 180bb deep idk.

If they have a 5bet range it's "supposed" to be some mixed % of AK and some mixed % of KK and AA (KK being 5bet much less than AA) and then a very small % of ATs/A5s. In practice I think you'll often find AK just calls the 4bet, ATs/A5s type hands never bluff here, and the 5bet is just AA and some small % of KK.

Like I said before this is not a good spot for the BB cold 4bettor and folding QQ is reasonable, especially from an exploitative perspective.

In this spot, does anyone else think flatting the 5b is the worst decision of the three options?

Fold>shove>call right?

I don’t know. Readless I think fold and shove at some random frequency. Maybe 3:1.

maybe he is restealing? just shove unless opponents are tight af