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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 05-16-2018, 10:29 AM   #26
lolposting2016
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Re: QJcc flop decision

^go ahead and keep clicking buttons that’s the thing about gto you think you can keep making sick exploits bc of your “reads” but most of the time you are way off (like in this case w your pf strategy) and it costs you tons of ev

Other notes from my look at this spot (for anyone who cares)
Ip actually had a slightly higher pot share here and the oop player actually does a lot of checking w hands like aa (which was played almost as a pure check) and almost all of his jx bets are mostly c. Bets are like kk/qq for value. Drawing bluffs from mostly kq and some small % of ak/aq bd hearts. This also makes sense bc we’ll need to check a bunch of ak/tt and the jx hits the ip player hits j43hh quite well. I’m sure that your villain was over cbetting this spot

Last edited by lolposting2016; 05-16-2018 at 10:45 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:30 AM   #27
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown View Post
I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, I'm just interested in your thought process, especially if you think this is WAY off. I'm personally opening a squeaky ~11% here (essentially EP of a 3-blind game with straddler being an active 3ber), and at this depth/sizing, I would assume AQo, 99, and AJs all outperform QJs. Do you think I'm way off with our opening range, with my assumptions about which hands play better here as a flat, with my assumption we can fold the bottom 40% of our range, or that we should be playing more exploitatively here given our reads?
11% is way 2 tight as a pfr. Consult snowie for more on optimal pfr and defending ranges here
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:31 AM   #28
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Re: QJcc flop decision

Funny 'cause I ran PIO on this spot and it has us call or even ship QJ on a A or K turn, though it folds to a third bullet on that runout. Then again, that's because I gave it the option to bet .35p OTT (which most live players don't do) and I gave villain an 8% 3!ing range that I have saved for like COvBB 3! spots. Assuming he bets more of an lol-live-poker sizing (PIO folds QJ 100% against an 880 turn bet) and we're overestimating how 3! happy he is of a single open, the turn becomes a fold.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:37 AM   #29
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
11% is way 2 tight as a pfr. Consult snowie for more on optimal pfr and defending ranges here
1) Does Snowie run 3-blind situations?

2) Does it open 3.5bb?

3) Does it account for an abusively 3!ing straddler?

4) Has Snowie proven to be useful or accurate for NLHE? (Genuinely curious as I've been away from the game for a while and there was some skepticism as of when I left.)
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:47 AM   #30
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by spirit123 View Post
I think jam. You are happy to take down this relatively big pot with top pair. He might even fold hands that have you crushed.
He should never fold a hand better than qj here if he has half a brain
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:02 PM   #31
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
He should never fold a hand better than qj here if he has half a brain
On that turn card I agree. Maybe QQ every once in a while, but never KK or AA. Not deep enough.

I still like a bet OTT though. Would be interested to hear others thoughts on b/f vs check to induce on non OC rivers.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:08 PM   #32
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown View Post
1) Does Snowie run 3-blind situations?

2) Does it open 3.5bb?

3) Does it account for an abusively 3!ing straddler?

4) Has Snowie proven to be useful or accurate for NLHE? (Genuinely curious as I've been away from the game for a while and there was some skepticism as of when I left.)
Nah but it should give you some solid foundations for pf that will be useful for folks who are trying to guess at what optimal pf ranges should look like. Most (75%) of the live regs are still just guessing
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:11 PM   #33
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown View Post
Funny 'cause I ran PIO on this spot and it has us call or even ship QJ on a A or K turn, though it folds to a third bullet on that runout. Then again, that's because I gave it the option to bet .35p OTT (which most live players don't do) and I gave villain an 8% 3!ing range that I have saved for like COvBB 3! spots. Assuming he bets more of an lol-live-poker sizing (PIO folds QJ 100% against an 880 turn bet) and we're overestimating how 3! happy he is of a single open, the turn becomes a fold.
Obv pio will be very sensitive to your assumptions. I don’t think you’ll be seeing 1/3 pot ott here and vs that size jx doesn’t rly wanna fold So that makes some sense I also had the bb wider than you for what I thought would be an slightly leaky/loose 3b strat from bb
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:00 AM   #34
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
11% is way 2 tight as a pfr. Consult snowie for more on optimal pfr and defending ranges here
Wait, weren't you the one that said it's not even a close to a fold preflop? Snowie has this as like a 2bb blunder for calling the 3bet preflop. QJ has horrible RIO vs a value 3betting range and is more often than not dominated.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:08 AM   #35
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Re: QJcc flop decision

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Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown View Post
1) Does Snowie run 3-blind situations?

No, and I've always been curious how much that would actually effect the situation. Maybe simulating it as an ante game?

2) Does it open 3.5bb?
No, but it seems to be able to learn pretty quickly. I've had quite a bit of success with my attempts to implement snowie in live games over the past 4 years.

3) Does it account for an abusively 3!ing straddler?
No, but I definitely wouldn't think the best counter strategy is to start calling with more reverse-implied-odds hands.

4) Has Snowie proven to be useful or accurate for NLHE? (Genuinely curious as I've been away from the game for a while and there was some skepticism as of when I left.)

So I used to use snowie on a seperate computer for real time decisions. At the time I didn't think it was that bad with all the sotware everyone uses, but now I feel bad for cheating. But I'll be honest, I won 8bb/100 playing 200-600nl 6max over like 20k hand sample and 17bb/100 at HU 400nl over about $50,000 hands. This was game selecting though. And yes, I'm worse than the worst of tax collectors. Just thought I would be open about it, since you asked.
Imo.

Last edited by Loading....; 05-28-2018 at 03:13 AM.
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Old 05-28-2018, 03:39 AM   #36
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Re: QJcc flop decision

Ftr, anything other than calling the flop is... basically the reason poker games still run. Just sayin.
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