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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 04-02-2017, 02:35 PM   #26
pauper
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Re: Preflop theory/strategy question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
[ ] top 5%
[ ] 25% opening range is a 3-bet defending range

I agree with your last paragraph, though, which is why hands beyond a certain strength threshold are 3-bets regardless (such as JJ+ AK). Just not this hand.
I was responding to the guy who said the BTN was opening 25%. AJo is only a top 7% hand while AJs is 5%, I misremembered and thought AJo was included in the 5% but its so close as to be negligible. I also didn't say his 3bet defending range is 25%. My point was if he opens 25% and FOLDS 80% of that 20% to where his defend range is top 5% of hands then we print money by 3betting anyway. I also don't think a "standard" reg in 2017 is ever folding anywhere near that frequency but you made a point that AJo is behind BTNs 3bet defend range. If that were true the BTN would have to fold 70-80%. In reality BTN is probably rarely folding because this looks like a FOS spot for the BB to 3bet, so AJo is well ahead of whatever he's calling with.

Last edited by pauper; 04-02-2017 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 04-02-2017, 03:21 PM   #27
Renton555
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Re: Preflop theory/strategy question

Villain can easily defend far more than 20% of his opening range and that be a range that AJo plays badly against. Re: the equity, even if you're lucky enough to have ~50% equity vs his flatting range, you don't stand to realize all of that equity OOP. In practice, a 25% opening range is probably going to defend to your 3-bet 40-50% of the time (about 9-12% of all hands), and you'll have about 50-52% raw pot equity vs his calling range, and realize at most 1/3 of the pot. It is possible under these conditions for a 3-bet to beat a call, but I think, generally speaking, a fish is going to make big enough mistakes that flatting makes more money.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:08 AM   #28
diskoteque
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Preflop theory/strategy question

In my experience BTNs range in hand 1 will be much stronger live vs. online. Online, he's raising most 'playable' hands, it's a huge range. Live, even the most solid regs will limp along with suited one gappers, suited connectors, JTo, KTo, etc. because they know they are almost always going 4 ways to the flop and will have to shut down most of the time.

That being said, I think when we 3b and are called (frequently) we are really not in great shape. I think I would prefer to just take a flop with fish. We are OOP multiway with a rio hand but we are still going to get three streets of value when on a J high flop and some ace high flops so I think we eek out value long term by calling. So I think I prefer calling to raising.

Second hand I'm three balling almost always

Folding in either spot is insane to me
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Old 04-15-2017, 09:54 AM   #29
Jarretman
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Re: Preflop theory/strategy question

Sit 1 call

Sit 2 call

It's not really that close imo, although I guess sit 2 is a lot closer than sit 1. Renton already explained why better than I can
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:07 PM   #30
Dwarf Invasion
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Re: Preflop theory/strategy question

For situation 1

1. How drunk/spewy is drunk guy? That can push this to a mandatory call regardless of all else. He might be ready to start spite jamming pre or calling down stacks with any pair. Or he might just be able to drink a lot.

2. What is a standard player? The average player in your pool, or a player with some poker knowledge? You surely have a better read than this. When limpers are not huge fish, 3b vs wide range and call/fold as range gets tighter.

3. How much is the rake? At low stakes, this kills the profitablilty of marginal calls and they become -EV. You must identify a significant advantage in the hand in order to overcome this: position, card advantage, skill advantage, or sobriety advantage

I 3b when limpers are not good, but also not going to make enormous multistreet mistakes often. Button must be raising wide. Limpers should also not be tricky or overly passive that they limp dominating hands often. Better when rake is high. This is a very specific set of conditions as RIO can pile up fast here.

Call if:
1. Limpers may make huge mistakes. In this scenario we are printing cash.
2. Rake is low (or time rake) but no other huge source of profit. We are looking to realize a small edge.

Fold if:
1. Rake is high and no significant equity edges. (Rake almost always very high in a low stakes live game)
2. Button range is tight.

Last edited by Dwarf Invasion; 04-26-2017 at 06:14 PM.
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