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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 10-11-2018, 10:55 AM   #1
Israfish
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Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Hi
Would like some advice on this hand:
8 ppl at table. 5/5
Hero bb- AJcc
4 limps.
I raise 45.
4 limpers call.
Flop comes KcQs5c.
Hero bets 200.
3 calls.
Pot is now 1025.
Turn 7s.
Hero’s effective stack is 650.
What is the line I should take-
1) chk fold?
2) shove
3) chk call?
Thks
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:17 PM   #2
Imaginary F(r)iend
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

You've got 25 % vs. two pairs, vs. top pair 33 %, some FE.


Readless I'm shoving.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:21 PM   #3
Bad Lobster
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Those aren't the only options. You'll get a good price for a draw to the nuts, if all the opponents stay in. So make a small bet of roughly $200 and each opponent will find himself priced in, and you'll get 4-1 for your money. If some money goes in and then someone raises to put you all-in (you're pot committing yourself with this bet), you'll still be getting an acceptable payoff and he may get called by the whole table. In the best case, for $200 you'll get a chance to make the nut flush or straight and then get the rest of your stack paid off on the river.

The counter tactic that would be least favorable to you is if you make a small bet and someone makes a huge raise that chases everyone else out and isolates you. If that happens, you're still pot committed but you won't like it. This can happen only if most of the stacks in the game are much deeper than yours, which you didn't specify.

That's the kind of aggressive raising we expect in mid-high stakes games, which is why passive multiplayer hands like this are almost never discussed in this forum. But these people have already missed so many chances to bet that the mini bet is worth a try.
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:25 PM   #4
pgcounty
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Shove -- the fold equity along with your hand has to make this a good spot
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:48 AM   #5
lolposting2016
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Otf-I think you’re supposed to a lot of x/c w this hand /
this line is fine as well and as played gotta sling the rest in and get ready to reload
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:34 PM   #6
ScoopThaPoop
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Lobster View Post
Those aren't the only options. You'll get a good price for a draw to the nuts, if all the opponents stay in. So make a small bet of roughly $200 and each opponent will find himself priced in, and you'll get 4-1 for your money. If some money goes in and then someone raises to put you all-in (you're pot committing yourself with this bet), you'll still be getting an acceptable payoff and he may get called by the whole table. In the best case, for $200 you'll get a chance to make the nut flush or straight and then get the rest of your stack paid off on the river.

The counter tactic that would be least favorable to you is if you make a small bet and someone makes a huge raise that chases everyone else out and isolates you. If that happens, you're still pot committed but you won't like it. This can happen only if most of the stacks in the game are much deeper than yours, which you didn't specify.

That's the kind of aggressive raising we expect in mid-high stakes games, which is why passive multiplayer hands like this are almost never discussed in this forum. But these people have already missed so many chances to bet that the mini bet is worth a try.
I do think there are table dynamics where integrating this line is really affective. Not sure this is the right spot to apply it. Maximizing FE now serves a better purpose than allowing hands to continue, even if you get a decent price on it
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Old 10-13-2018, 11:21 PM   #7
Jarretman
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Weird spot for sure. Id jam turn.
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Old 10-14-2018, 09:10 AM   #8
Israfish
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

thanks a lot for replying! i appreciate it.
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Old 10-17-2018, 08:14 AM   #9
Regurge
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Bet bigger pre. Oop I like a pot rather than x+x for each limper type open raise strategy.

This multiway on the flop Checking. We have no folders equity with this many players so want to get to river as cheap as possible even with the amazing equity of nutshot +Nfd

I would never get to the turn as played and I think you took too suboptimal a line to stew over what to do here. That being said I like the above suggestion of small bet pot committing.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:09 PM   #10
grant2
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Regurge View Post
Bet bigger pre. Oop I like a pot rather than x+x for each limper type open raise strategy.
There's $30 in the pot before the hero raises to $45. So he's actually raising larger than pot here.
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Old 10-19-2018, 07:29 PM   #11
Playbig2000
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Re: Out of position with a draw - what to do on turn

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Originally Posted by grant2 View Post
There's $30 in the pot before the hero raises to $45. So he's actually raising larger than pot here.
It's not only about "what's in the pot".

He's OOP, with 4 limpers. I would raise to at least 50/55

As played I think your best option is to jam the turn.

I prefer to check/call the flop in a 5 way pot OOP.
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