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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 07-14-2017, 02:41 AM   #1
NoExit
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Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a day?

There is a group of foreign pros/friends at my local casino who constantly sit down at the 2/5 or 5/10 game with the minimum buy in (usually 30bb). They play pretty tight and look for action/aggressive tables to squeeze/shove, and as soon as they double or triple up, they rack up and go to a different game.

The rule at the casino is that if you get up, you cannot return to the same table for an hour unless you continue playing with the same stack you left with. Since these players do not know how to play with anything more than 30bb, they go to a different game (such as from 2/5 to 5/10 or 1/2) and employ the same short stacking strategy at the new game. If the new game is tight thus they cannot benefit from their short stacking strategy, they will get up and wait an hour to come back into the game they left with 30bb. If the new game has action, they will obviously try to double/triple up there and hit and run/rathole that table.

They will do this repeatedly throughout the day. There is usually a rotating group of 2-4 of them doing this at the same games.

What they're doing is within the rules, but as well all know, hitting and running and ratholing is bad etiquette, just like slowrolling. It's one thing if they only hit and run - double up, leave and be done for the day. However, these short stackers do not leave. They jump in and out of games/stakes so they can keep hitting and running different tables throughout the day.

Would it be reasonable to petition to stop these guys from doing that? Even though I don't think there is a feasible way to set any rule to make them stop doing that?

IMO these guys are worse for poker than the iPad nits that DGAF bemoan. While the iPad nits are merely selfish/self-absorbed, these short stacking ratholers are scummy (constantly eschewing basic etiquette is scummy) on top of that.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:07 AM   #2
diskoteque
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

I don't mind shortstackers as they are invariably terrible players in the live setting (online they can sometimes play close to optimally if they are "pros"). I'd actually even prefer to have them on my left if I can get position on a solid reg full stacked player. Tighten up a little and you'll be fine.

Ratholing is whatever. I've noticed over the years if a weaker player isn't ratholing then they just fold for a few orbits and leave anyway. If they want to lock up the win they'll do it some how some way.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:20 AM   #3
NoExit
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

I actually don't like having the short stackers on my left because they tend to shove light (for example, they are more likely to squeeze shove 88 or AJ while deeper stack players flat and play poker). I get caught in the middle sometimes when an aggressive player raises, multiple people call, I call, and the short stacker sees the squeeze opportunity and shove with little risk. It screws up the game.

You're right in that it's preferable they instantly leave after doubling up as opposed to fake-hitting-and-running by sitting out/locking down for a few orbits. However, it is also this brazen disregard for etiquette that enable them to keep ratholing and returning to the same table an hour later without shame.
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Old 07-14-2017, 10:08 AM   #4
diskoteque
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

Yeah I mean it's not great having a short stack to your left but given the skill advantage we have over them I would much prefer to have a short stack to my left instead of a solid player I'm 200bb deep with

At the end of the day I think both shortstackers and ratholers are +EV for the community as they are rarely long term winners (if they were they wouldn't be engaging in these activities)
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:48 AM   #5
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

Keep a couple of racks on hand and hand them to the guy as soon as he doubles up or just before he takes the big blind after doubling up, whichever one he does. This should at least shame him at some non-zero level. (This is a DGAF technique.)
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:06 PM   #6
zachvac
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

The issue isn't the ratholing, the issue is the shortstacking. If you want to fix the problem, the answer is getting the casino to raise the minimum buyin, not to outlaw ratholing.
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Old 07-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #7
discgolfing
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Re: Live poker: How to deal with group who shortstack/rathole the same game multiple times a da

I'm on op's side here. While yes, short stack players are likely losing players - I enjoy the game because of how fun and engaging it is to play, not so much because of how much money I'm making doing it. If my regular game started devolving into a bunch of short stacked rat-holing players - it would ruin the game for me and I would start playing less often because of it. And I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way, so on some scale these kinds of players are a threat to the long term health of the game.

I would talk to other regular players about this, see if they feel the same way as you do. If most of you agree, all of you can talk to the floor about this issue on a regular basis. Complain enough and they might just pass it on to their superiors and make a change. Either increasing the minimum buy-in or increasing the amount of time they have to wait to come back in.

Not saying it's likely this will work... I just think it's your best option.
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