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Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK)

04-25-2018 , 09:57 PM
Live 5/10 game. Avg stack about 1000.

Villain is a semi-reg, mostly plays 2-5, but lately been taking shots at 5/10.
I would say he plays fairly snug, doesn't get too out of line and pretty ABC for the most part...i did notice he does make slighty loose calls pre and probably post flop as well.

Hero - $3,600 - BB
Villain - $1500 - CO

Folds to V in CO, he opens to 35. Button loose/rec player calls. SB loose rec player calls.
Hero raises to $165 from SB with K K

V calls - everyone else folds.

Flop: 6 4 6

Hero bets $185. V raises to $505. Hero calls.

Turn: 4 Hero checks. V snap shoves all in for $865.

Hero ?
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-25-2018 , 10:47 PM
Snap Call... $1410 in the middle already, Villian described as semi-reg who pays mostly 2/5 but has been taking shots at 5/10... generally speaking when a player is "taking shots" their preflop open ranges in particular will tighten up... We can clearly rule out Aces preflop because your getting 4 bet so what 4s or 6s are in Villians pre flop opening range (understood it limps to Villian in CO so open range can be wider) ... but the the line Villian chose to play this hand is odd and raises flags imo... Villian raises CO then flat 3bet from BB... you see a 6c 4c 6s flop and lead $185... Villian decides to raise to $505... At this point in time Hypothetically if Villian has a hand like Ax6x for trips which I already find hard to believe he defends that light he folds out all his opponents over PP's and AK, KQ suited and Broadway combos therefore raising this sizing screams to me that Villian defended with an inferior PP 88-JJ range and is looking to blow you off a hand such as AK,KQ,AQ and other suited Broadway combos all of which would be in your preflop 3bet range.when the turn brings a 4h Villian jams for $865 into $1400 i revert back to my initial read on opponent and board texture... what 6s or 4s are in his Preflop CO raising range and strong enough to call a 3bet? To me this hand screams inferior PP from Villian whose hand got caught in the cookie jar when his turn raise was called and he Chose to continue his story on a turn card which is a texture we can feel comfortable calling AI with KK... as played I snap call.... If I was hero I would be shipping over villians flop raise and playing for stacks.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-25-2018 , 10:58 PM
I'd bet much smaller on the flop. Not a bad hand to check either.

AP, the standard would be to stack off here. Could make an explo fold against an ABC player who's shot-taking if you really want to own him. I'd like to be fairly confident in that read, though, and there's an inflection point where he starts to be so tight that you're cutting into his value range based on preflop action.

Last edited by TenHighCallDown; 04-25-2018 at 11:20 PM.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-25-2018 , 11:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown
I'd bet much smaller on the flop. Not a bad hand to check either.

AP, the standard would be to stack off here. Could make an explo fold against an ABC player who's shot-taking if you really want to own him. I'd like to be fairly confident in that read, though, and there's an inflection point where he starts to be so tight enough that you're cutting into his value range based on preflop action.

Are you insinuating that Villian is utilizing his shot taking image to raise for value with a 6x on flop and then jam turn with top boat for value being that hero may perceive Villian as a shot taker with a tight Pre flop opening range which should not included any combos of 6 or 4s? Just trying to understand what you meant by that last sentence 👍🏻
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-25-2018 , 11:23 PM
I meant if villain's tight enough, then he probably doesn't have a ton of 6s in his r/c range to begin with. Sorry for the ****y sentence structure.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-25-2018 , 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown
I meant if villain's tight enough, then he probably doesn't have a ton of 6s in his r/c range to begin with. Sorry for the ****y sentence structure.
No worries... seems like your thoughts coincide with my thoughts regarding villians preflop r/c range
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-26-2018 , 12:41 AM
Yes stacking off is mandatory
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-26-2018 , 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenHighCallDown
I'd bet much smaller on the flop. Not a bad hand to check either.

AP, the standard would be to stack off here. Could make an explo fold against an ABC player who's shot-taking if you really want to own him. I'd like to be fairly confident in that read, though, and there's an inflection point where he starts to be so tight that you're cutting into his value range based on preflop action.
It’s a bad hand to check at any kind of hi frequency
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-26-2018 , 07:54 AM
Sometimes people just decide to never fold their overpairs, and the best way to do it is to raise in case they have to face any tough decisions.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-26-2018 , 09:42 AM
unless villain is a nit that would shutdown his semibluffs on turn pairing (which i am guessing we don't know), this is a call.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-26-2018 , 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
It’s a bad hand to check at any kind of hi frequency
To clarify, I wouldn't really be checking much of my range with these stacks and positions. But if we were forming a checking range, I would assume this hand would rank up there as a candidate and if we're range splitting bet sizes, it would go in the smallest bet size bucket. I'd rather bet the Kc because it gives us some equity for when the pot's already large while not helping us out a lot in situations where there's a lot of money left behind.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-27-2018 , 02:18 PM
I like squeezing a bit bigger, prob just make it $200(6x or so) oop vs open + 2 callers. As played never folding. His flop raise looks like AJcc or something ... I'd just stick the rest in on flop.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-28-2018 , 12:35 PM
Pre is a bit small.

I'd only call flop if your plan is to open shove this turn. Shove flop is probably the best play by far on a paired board with no club in your hand. A flush draw only has 8 outs and has to fade your boat redraw so you actually push substantial equity against it by getting it in on the flop.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-28-2018 , 01:04 PM
some of you younger guys won't believe this but there was a time on 2p2 where most hand discussions weren't just cry baby stories people posted disguised as strategy posts.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-28-2018 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
some of you younger guys won't believe this but there was a time on 2p2 where most hand discussions weren't just cry baby stories people posted disguised as strategy posts.
Pretty sure all strategy discussions in the history of poker was just a cover for bad beat stories or an excuse to complain about someone's play, either your own, or your opponent's.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
04-30-2018 , 10:17 AM
Pre is a little too small. I'd make it185ish. Jamming flop for sure
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
05-01-2018 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
some of you younger guys won't believe this but there was a time on 2p2 where most hand discussions weren't just cry baby stories people posted disguised as strategy posts.
Discussing strat on 2p2 w morons who have no idea what they are talking about is so 2010 esp when there’s software you can run to actually get the right answer
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote
05-03-2018 , 02:58 AM
3b is too small, go 190-210ish. Cbet is too big, go 36-40% pot. Your main question seems ridiculous unless your leaving out some extremely important read that gives him a super narrow tight range. Simply saying hes shot taking isnt enought of an excuse to fold. Snap it in expecting to win most of the time. If you lose then boo hoo but theres no way its even close to a mistake.
Live 5/10:  Do we have to go with our hand here ? (KK) Quote

      
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