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Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take?

04-27-2018 , 04:34 AM
Live 5/10. Playing 6 handed.

Villain is a good reg, upswing member & def leans towards more GTO style than any other reg here. He’s stuck a little at this point but nothing too crazy.
Lots of history between us, with me mostly losing hands vs him ;/ - he sees me as a loose reg, mostly solid but sometimes I get out of line in his eyes.

V - 2,000
Hero - 2500

V is UTG straddle, Hero raises $60 UTG+1 with J,10hh.
Button calls.
BB calls.
V 3bet to $240, only hero calls.

Pot: $600. Flop: Kd 9h 6c

V checks. Hero ??

Bet: we have only J hi and no SD value. But we have to barrel most turns/rivers?

Check: we have pos & we can choose to bluff turn+river or hit a pair or straight & goto value town ?











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Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 06:17 AM
I’d prob 4b or fold pre. Sure we have position against 3bettor but if other players tag along our Jx/flushes will be dominated a lot and we cant fold with a small SPR.

Plus his sizing his pretty weak, 4b IP will let us overrealize equity, he’ll either 5b jam or fold a lot here.

Ap i bet otf and shove heart turns
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 08:33 AM
4b was my first instinct too.

As played I bet. Saying you need to continue all turns is silly. You’re prob gonna wanna Barrell on any turn that gives you equity but giving up bad turns is fine
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 09:06 AM
4b or call are both fine preflop, and it's probably a mix.

Bet or check are both fine on the flop, and it's probably a mix because there are so many nut gutterball+BDFD+split pair draw hands in your range. I tend to bet very small here with a wide range, but even if you're betting like 1/4p, this hand is a good one for your checking bucket.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 03:17 PM
mixing call and 4b pre as other posters have said

Bet roughly 1/2 pot otf with most of our range, including this hand. Sets up $1200 in the pot with V having $1460 back. Shoving all hearts, 9, and some Queens (maybe checking the rainbow Queen?)
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 03:41 PM
1. Why is 4b J,10hh here better than flatting IP?

(because of his small sizing, he is more likely to have a weak hand that he will most likely 3b & fold? Our hand is not strong enough to call vs his 3b range?)

2. If we do bet this flop & get called, I’m assuming we jam most turns? Turn SPR = 1 if we bet flop.

(Otherwise, V can comfortably call 1 street with any underpair to K and get an easy SD vs my range)

3. what turn cards do we give up if we get called on the flop?

(A, K, 9, 6 ??)






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Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 04:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Playa
1. Why is 4b J,10hh here better than flatting IP?

(because of his small sizing, he is more likely to have a weak hand that he will most likely 3b & fold? Our hand is not strong enough to call vs his 3b range?)

2. If we do bet this flop & get called, I’m assuming we jam most turns? Turn SPR = 1 if we bet flop.

(Otherwise, V can comfortably call 1 street with any underpair to K and get an easy SD vs my range)

3. what turn cards do we give up if we get called on the flop?

(A, K, 9, 6 ??)






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My thoughts on why 4b popped into my head as an option-

Villains sizing is too small for me to think he’s very strong. Felt more like a squeeze vs hero (per op) who he views as loose.

If villain is strong and flats our 4b then our hand plays well vs his call 4b range. I’d rather use this hand or even a smaller suited connector than AQhh for example.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apricotjello
mixing call and 4b pre as other posters have said

Bet roughly 1/2 pot otf with most of our range, including this hand. Sets up $1200 in the pot with V having $1460 back. Shoving all hearts, 9, and some Queens (maybe checking the rainbow Queen?)
Can you explain shoving on a 9? I'd be happy going with this line with our best kings but as played preflop I don't think we have that many combos of kings that good. In villain's shoes I'd find calling on a 9 turn pretty comfortably with most second pairs.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-27-2018 , 06:52 PM
1) On further thought, I'm not often 4!ing much here at these stack depths and sizing. In general, JTs is a good hand to mix in as a strong bluff because of its playability and we need to mix with these sorts of hands for board coverage reasons.

2) I wouldn't bet an amount that leaves 1 SPR behind. There's not really any reason to bet this board that large regardless of our range construction. It'd be more like 150 into 600 -> 400 into 900 -> shove 1200 into 1700. I'm not much inclined to barrel this hand though.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-28-2018 , 12:17 AM
i don't understand shoving a 9.

and if you're gonna shove hearts you should shove non heart 7's and 8's
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-28-2018 , 02:35 AM
Given sizing of 3b and that we’re playing 6 handed I’d think we’re folding very rarely to the 3b in position. Therefore we have lots of 9x in our range that I think can safely bet flop - especially if we use a smaller size - and shove on turned 9s.

Once we’ve established we can have a decently sized value range: What hands can we bluff with on turned 9s? JT seems like a good combo - yeah we’re basically dead to a gutter when we get called, but we’re so low in our range and we block all the hands that are calls (J9, T9, KJ, KT even) while not blocking all the Ax V will have here that he’ll give up with.

Not 100% convinced myself so I’m happy to hear why I’m wrong to shove on a 9 though
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-28-2018 , 06:51 AM
Pre is fine (opponent’s sizing is not). Check back flop a lot, unless way deeper.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
04-28-2018 , 12:31 PM
Pre is fine. Flop I'd tend to bet, and yeah, I'd barrel off most runouts. I'm not seeing a lot of AK AA KK here for only $240, so it should be a pretty profitable line to take.

grunching: 4-betting is kind of ridiculous with anything more than a 10% frequency. It's just a really easy call.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 03:57 AM
I know his squeeze sizing is small but we should still be folding this with a lowish frequency, 4b with a slightly higher frequency (i think), and be calling the rest. If we call and barrel flop then im expecting to get called a lotttttttt and then we definitely gotta ship any card that improves our equity and probably even some that dont but im not sure how many or which ones. So given that a flop bet commits us to jamming quite a few turns with J hi im fine with checking this hand on the flop just as often as betting.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 04:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Pre is fine. Flop I'd tend to bet, and yeah, I'd barrel off most runouts. I'm not seeing a lot of AK AA KK here for only $240, so it should be a pretty profitable line to take.

grunching: 4-betting is kind of ridiculous with anything more than a 10% frequency. It's just a really easy call.
I definitely agree with flatting IP if it’s BTN vs SB or BTN vs BB. But we have two people behind us, and J10s does not play well multiway in 3b pots with low SPRs, esp when people/fish behind us can reflat with QJs/KJs/A10s/AJo/Axss/Kxss etc
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 10:54 AM
I agree it's a mix, but I lean towards both flatting and checking back flop. Deeper I think we should have a higher bet frequency, but at a non-deep SPR, most of our range (inc value) benefits less from betting right now, and more of his hands benefit more from trapping.

re: Minatorr

Yeah it's not ideal, but I think it can do better than 4betting into a fairly strong range without blockers. This is a top tier 4b bluff candidate, but seeing as I don't think we should have that many 4bet bluffs to begin with, we can afford to not do it (much) with this hand.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PixieRust
I agree it's a mix, but I lean towards both flatting and checking back flop. Deeper I think we should have a higher bet frequency, but at a non-deep SPR, most of our range (inc value) benefits less from betting right now, and more of his hands benefit more from trapping.

re: Minatorr

Yeah it's not ideal, but I think it can do better than 4betting into a fairly strong range without blockers. This is a top tier 4b bluff candidate, but seeing as I don't think we should have that many 4bet bluffs to begin with, we can afford to not do it (much) with this hand.


i’d usually agree except the squeeze is so small that i think we get away with 4b here super often - how many people have QQ+, AK at that tiny 3b size when the pot will often go multiway? Unless this is a sick level with previous history I’d just assume he’s full of ****.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 05:17 PM
I personally try to avoid reading into sizings so deeply; I feel like it makes it a bit easy to level. Some people just size differently.
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 09:23 PM
4b is really silly here guys come on are we just clicking buttons w our 4b range esp w the small 3b sizing he offers you a sick price to peel

Anyway flop is a super easy bet. He’ll have some folds here and there will be some nice spots to keep putting pressure on his range. I’m pretty sure pio wil tell us to bet this with some kind of decent frequency and keep betting on turns where we have good blockers etc
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote
05-03-2018 , 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PixieRust
I agree it's a mix, but I lean towards both flatting and checking back flop. Deeper I think we should have a higher bet frequency, but at a non-deep SPR, most of our range (inc value) benefits less from betting right now, and more of his hands benefit more from trapping.

re: Minatorr

Yeah it's not ideal, but I think it can do better than 4betting into a fairly strong range without blockers. This is a top tier 4b bluff candidate, but seeing as I don't think we should have that many 4bet bluffs to begin with, we can afford to not do it (much) with this hand.
It’s not a top tier 4b candidate dude it’s actually one of worst 4b hands in your range @ this spr. It’s not even a mix it’s like a pure call here pre
Live 5/10/20:  3 bet pot, best line to take? Quote

      
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