Hi everyone this is my first post in 2+2, im trying to collect opinions from as much people as possible about stack size.
I am a 2/5 live grinder but i play 60bbs buy in even in the deep games because of bankroll managment and stuff.
My winrate at the moment is 35 usd/hour in around 1k hours.

I've been talking to a lot of people and other regulars about this topic and most of them think playing deep is better cause rec players will make more mistakes.
In the other hand my friend who has been coaching me since the beginning affirms that is more profitable to play 60bbs.

I would like to play deep next year but i would like to know how the stack could affect my winrate.

I look forward to hearing your opinions. Thank you!

What’s the logic why short stack is more profitable? I get the bankroll point but not profitability.

If you’re actually good, I think deeper is better, cuz... people overvalue hands...and you can put people in tough spots for a lot of money.

However, most 2/5 pros are not actually very good cuz they are nits, therefore I don’t think being deeper helps them that much.

Hi there! I think in the same way you do, is better to play deep or at least 100bbs.
However, i understand when he says that playing short stack has less decisions and that its easier to take your equity in some spots, you wont be running into huge coolers and swings.
But i still think that is worth it if the winrate is higher.

Ill be glad to hear as much opinions as possible.
Thank you for your answer!

There are a lot of competing variables that contribute to our winrate.

A lot of it will have to do with the relative skill between you and your opponents.

Assuming you're profitable in your game, your relative skill differential is the same at deeper stacks, and the frequency you get different porportions of your stack size in remains the same at deeper stacks then in theory you're winrate should slightly increase with deeper stack sizes.

As a simple example imagine you can express your winrate as the frequency you win or lose a proportion of your starting stack size, as well as the frequency that you actually encounter scenarios where you win or lose that proportion.

Then intuitively if your wintate is positive then it should be true that either the frequency you encounter losses is less than the frequency you encounter wins and/or you more often win larger proportions of your stack than you loose.

In either scenario having a larger stack in this model should yield a higher winrate. BUT note all the caveats we had to make (i.e. the other variables contributing to your winrate remain the same).

Obviously you cannot win what you don't have to put in the middle. However, playing short-stacked may leave you less stressed than if you are worried about potentially putting more of your funds into the middle. Some people simply don't play well if losing a buy-in means they have to worry about making the rent payment or handling other bills.

Some of this will ultimately come back to whether you are essentially a recreational player who is playing from hobby funds or if you are truly playing for the ability to treat it as your full-time job. I do well enough live that I could have stepped away from my career of 30-plus years but I prefer to simply play when I can. As such, I don't look at bankroll issues the same as some on 2P2 will...if I drop a few buy-ins in a session, it has zero impact on the ability to cover my expenses for the month. That does NOT mean I am thrilled if I drop those few buy-ins, but it isn't doing anything other than putting a dent in the funds I carried in to have fun for a few days with...

I qualify the above in light of your 'live grinder' comment. There are still some of us who have trips where we are treating our play as a job. In those instances, using my own travels as background, I try to maintain a regular schedule and play for 10 to 12 hours a day for several days. When I return to one of the houses, any surplus goes either back into the bank accounts or into an envelope that replenishes the hobby funds for future use (I always try to ensure that there is enough readily on hand for games up to a $5K buy-in without having to go to the bank- the interest on small sums just isn't worth constantly depositing to the account). But, being north of 50 and having the money to play with drastically changes the calculus compared to a 20-something that may not even have retirement accounts in place and vehicles paid off...

if you're good at poker you'll make more money deep stacked
if not you'll make more short stacking from the inherant built in advantage to short stacking which requires way less skill

I have never played in a game where the bolded assumption was true. And I doubt such a game exists in the world.

True and I mentioned a warning about the assumptions we made in our model.

However there might be a slightly better assumption where we assume that instead of the proportionality staying the same as stacks get deeper we could say that the pots that are a proportion of your smaller stack size should remain the same. Then you just have the additional sizes you could achieve above that, but those could be wins or losses.

It also depends on the style of play. If you are a good LAG playing a wide range of hands - you want to play a full stack.

If you are on a tighter side or a NIT/OMC (stylewise, not necessarily agewise), then a short stack might actually be more profitable.

Thank you everyone for your answers. I get the point in all of them, playing deep or at least 100bbs will result in a better win rate if you are a good profitable player.

If someone else still want to reply i will be reading.
Thank you!

Bigger stacks, bigger mistakes, more $$$

With lower stacks you will face tons more variance, but when playing deeper you can run bigger bluffs, make more plays and lots more things.

60bb is fine if u play tight and arent very good post. If you are good then buying in deep where u can maximize skill edge will add huge amounts to your winrate. When I play uncapped I always buy in enough to cover the fish unless he is sitting absurdly deep and its too obvious that I'm being predatory.

So when people say 60BB they mean starting with 60 BB, right? So when you are winning in a session you'll be often 100+BB. What do you do in that case? Cash out? Does the game change for you once you are deeper?

I am new to this forum, just curious about his situation.