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Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF

09-04-2019 , 12:35 PM
I hear people say it all the time when discussing hand histories. Well I made it here and I'm at the bottom of my range so I'm going to fire.

Can someone explain this in more detail please. Seems like they just fire cause they made it to the river with not much of a hand so they are going to just FIRE. What other decision factors go into these spots. I imagine you can't just FIRE everytime you make it to the river "at the bottom of your range"

Thanks.
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-04-2019 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas McCain
I hear people say it all the time when discussing hand histories. Well I made it here and I'm at the bottom of my range so I'm going to fire.



Can someone explain this in more detail please. Seems like they just fire cause they made it to the river with not much of a hand so they are going to just FIRE. What other decision factors go into these spots. I imagine you can't just FIRE everytime you make it to the river "at the bottom of your range"



Thanks.
Hands lower in your distribution benefit more from bluffing because they win a larger percent of the pot (up to 100% of the pot) when other hands fold.

Some of your hands like A high might actually reach the river with some equity so a lot of the time it's preferable to show them down instead of bluffing.

But something like 7 high will hardly ever win otr with a showdown.

It is true you can definitely over do it if you bluff every hand you can't showdown, but there are other considerations you can use to choose which hands to bluff on certain runouts such as blockers, opponent tendencies, randomization tools, etc.
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-04-2019 , 04:27 PM
Think about the value of x/give up vs the ev of bluffing pick the best Option
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-06-2019 , 03:17 AM
The problem is that people who say this often have a very wide 'bottom' of their range. They don't fold often enough on earlier streets and end up otr with an overall range that doesn't have enough showdown value. So if they are bluffing every time they have air means they are overbluffing a lot. Either play tighter on earlier streets or just give up more often on later ones. You can't win every hand, unfortunately.

Imo a better guideline to which hands you want to bluff with is too look at what hands you are blocking. If you block a lot of strong made hands, bet often. If you block some missed draws, give up often.

For instance, on a KQJcc23 board, TT without a club would be a good bluffing candidate. 8c7c would not be, even though it's has significantly less showdown value.
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-07-2019 , 07:46 PM
better to say that when youre at the bottom of your range u should CONSIDER bluffing, but dont always bluff.

also u should do some hand reading, "what does my opponent likely have? and so u think he would fold?"
"what are the properties of my cards? and do they block key value hands my opponent has? (or does my hand block the hands i expect him to fold?"
also, "what value hands can i represent here, and would my opponent respect those value hands enough to fold vs my bet?"
etc
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-09-2019 , 12:13 PM
Thanks guys some pretty good posts here. Much appreciated
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-23-2019 , 11:42 PM
And just to give you a book of matches to play with....
If you end up at the river with too many bluffs, but have a nut advantage, you can overbet your nutted hands which will allow you to bluff even more of your trash.
30% of the time, it will work every time.
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-24-2019 , 03:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeportMainePoker
And just to give you a book of matches to play with....
If you end up at the river with too many bluffs, but have a nut advantage, you can overbet your nutted hands which will allow you to bluff even more of your trash.
30% of the time, it will work every time.

You can overbet your value at any point it makes sense to, it doesn't matter how many bluffs you have. We never overbet because we have too many bluffs, it's always because our value wants to
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-25-2019 , 02:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lezaleas
You can overbet your value at any point it makes sense to, it doesn't matter how many bluffs you have. We never overbet because we have too many bluffs, it's always because our value wants to
I disagree. If we are in the BB and get to the river on say a J7427 run out, we have a bunch of 7’s, low suited connectors/gapers that villain doesn’t.
We could 2x pot with all our 7’s and missed straight draws with no showdown value and make our opponent indifferent to calling.
If we were in the CO with this same run out, we would have more missed holdings with some showdown value, and we would more likely bet small with our 7x+ to get some value and throw in a couple bluffs.
Bluffs:  Bottom of my range so I BLUFF Quote
09-25-2019 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeportMainePoker
I disagree. If we are in the BB and get to the river on say a J7427 run out, we have a bunch of 7’s, low suited connectors/gapers that villain doesn’t.
We could 2x pot with all our 7’s and missed straight draws with no showdown value and make our opponent indifferent to calling.
If we were in the CO with this same run out, we would have more missed holdings with some showdown value, and we would more likely bet small with our 7x+ to get some value and throw in a couple bluffs.
Why exactly are we overbetting less if we are CO? Are our 7x+ making more money with a smaller bet now? Where's that ev coming from?
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