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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 02-26-2020, 02:19 AM   #1
apricotjello
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BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

CO, BTN fold.
SB folds ($10).
I pick up A8dd in BB ($20). $4000ish stack
UTG straddle ($40). This player has been good and aggressive to my left all night and covers me.

Some prior hands: he showed me T8ss in a 4b pot where I called JJ vs downbet on a K94 flop, then I folded to another barrel on the A turn. He also had AA>KK vs someone else and covered the table.

Preflop ($70 pot).
I raise to $120 from SB.
UTG 3bets to $330.
I 4bet to $760.

I think he’s on a move so often here. My range might look like Axs, 99+, KQs here.


K87ccd flop ($1520 pot).
Checks through.

After I 4b pre I usually will bet small on all K-high flops. Here I was afraid of a raise with my specific hand, which I felt played best as a check/call. I think I can also check with KK at some % and strong draws to have as x/rs to protect my checking hands.


4r turn ($1520 pot)
I bet $560. UTG calls.

A lot of Kx hands should want to get value on that wet flop. I may be able to make a thin value bet.


8s river ($2640 pot)
I jam $2800ish more.

I river a very strong hand. Is an overbet the best size here or should I have gone for a check? A smaller size with the plan to call a shove?
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:17 PM   #2
Mr Spyutastic
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

I think a small size or check is best vs this guy. Shoving seems a lot less profitable.
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Old 02-26-2020, 12:43 PM   #3
pgcounty
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

I don't like the 4b pre against a guy who is good, covers you, is in position and is definitely calling that sizing.

As played and with your thought process, I like a bet on the flop for value and equity denial.

On the river, you bet over full pot and are all in. It doesn't look like a bluff. He hasn't showed much strength post flop. This doesn't seem like a good way to get the money.

Just price him in and bet 1/3 or 1/2 pot.
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Old 03-09-2020, 03:52 AM   #4
jdr0317
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

Overbet is kind of meh here. Exploitatively how many hands in his range are paying an overbet that might not jam all in itself (like if he has 98s, he may jam here).

Preflop seems a little button clicky. If we have A8s here, we have tons of various BS it would seem.


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Old 03-09-2020, 08:22 AM   #5
iamallin
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

Not a fan of river shove. Would you shove qq or jj there?

Small bet or check both seem fine. He is more likely to bluff you than to bluff catch you given his description.
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Old 03-09-2020, 08:34 AM   #6
TrashyDonkHere
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

Most players do not check their bluffs OTF on a K high board, not going to say i dislike this line though vs a guy making moves. This guy will have some issues folding a king but against this sizing+line with fish around nobody good will call all his Kx 100% of time.


But if you want to think from exploitable perspective OTR think of the hands he will call with which 3bet and flat 4bet pre. AK almost always shoves and it is possible he 3bets QKo KJs, he has some QKs for sure but overall his Kx combos seem limited. AK almost always shoves pre and AA you block. Not a slam dunk value shove. I would prefer a larger 4b size OOP though, you won’t want to play AK or bluffs this way in the long run. Also if you 4bet larger you woulda had better SPR to shove river.

Flop check is fine unless you’re comfy bet calling Spr is like 2.5 in theory you can’t fold these type of hands effectively bvb+ some dead money pre 4bet pot. I am not a fan of bet folding the flop and we do have the BDFD. Flop check is ok but remember good players will assume you have some piece of the board/slow play which includes some large pieces of this board.

Stick to playing this hand as a call and 4betting some weaker hands, vs his sizing this plays fine as a call IMO. You said the guy is making moves go with your read. Play exploitably and give him the rope(chek) or bet small. I am concerned this guy can hero fold the king which would make this a horror shove.
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Old 03-09-2020, 01:45 PM   #7
lolposting2016
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

Nh looks good on all streets
Pf size about perfect - just make sure you aren’t going for this all the time but with a read it’s good
Flop check is fine ish, betting is higher ev for 1/4 there’s just nothing the ip can do about and anytime u are in 4b pot k hi board is really good for you
Turn fine river is optimal sizing if you are betting any other sizing is losing ev
Rolling a check is fine for some like I’d guess like 25-40 frequency is gonna prolly be good (otr)

Last edited by lolposting2016; 03-09-2020 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 03-11-2020, 07:35 PM   #8
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

I'm not so certain about preflop, I think initial raise size should be 160, and the 4bet is too small being OOP - its only 2.3x. This needs to be 3x, could even go 3.25x depending on the read.

River, you're going to see a lot of folds here but think about what size you'd use when bluffing. Probably that has to be all in because SPR is about 1. This is also our second best possible hand given the range you provided for yourself... so jamming makes sense. I dont think a half pot bet gets called significantly more than a jam, so I wouldn't scale back the bet size here... just jam and hope for the best. What's nice about jamming too is that its going to look to villain/straddle like either KK or complete nonsense, and lots of people will err towards nonsense.
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Old 03-12-2020, 01:35 AM   #9
jdr0317
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow57 View Post
I'm not so certain about preflop, I think initial raise size should be 160, and the 4bet is too small being OOP - its only 2.3x. This needs to be 3x, could even go 3.25x depending on the read.

River, you're going to see a lot of folds here but think about what size you'd use when bluffing. Probably that has to be all in because SPR is about 1. This is also our second best possible hand given the range you provided for yourself... so jamming makes sense. I dont think a half pot bet gets called significantly more than a jam, so I wouldn't scale back the bet size here... just jam and hope for the best. What's nice about jamming too is that its going to look to villain/straddle like either KK or complete nonsense, and lots of people will err towards nonsense.

We’re only 100 bb effective. 2.3x doesn’t seem too bad, makes it cheap for him to run plays like this (of course if he’s 4 betting as often as this hand may suggest, we may not be generating many folds at all).


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Old 03-13-2020, 12:16 AM   #10
hyperknit
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

OTR if youre never bluffing, then u shouldnt pick a polar size. rather, u should use a smaller size so u can rep thin value.
At then point u could even induce a raise
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Old 03-18-2020, 01:53 PM   #11
abouzouz
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

I love the check river .
You are reping so much JJ-QQ-AQ here that he will alwys value cut himself Kx and bluff all his pure bluffs.
Regarding the stack sizes pf , i dont put him on a pp.
Pf if you 4 bet make it bigger like 900 since you are oop but maybe fold is the best.
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Old 04-15-2020, 10:46 PM   #12
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Re: BB v Straddle $10/20/40 - I Make Trips on the River

I don't like how you played it. Pf could raise more both as initial raiser and 4 bettor. I like betting the flop with your hand 40%-50% pot for equity denial and value because any card in between an 8 and K is going to be hard to play against. He can also bink a small set and twist you up. All in on river really is horror shove because your just hoping he has an 8 which there is only 1 left and he will bet anyway, or a Kx which he probably will just fold because he is "good" and you have a tight image. All in river loses tremendous value. We are supposed to check to these players or bet weak to get paid off by weak hand or induce bluff.
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