Hero has $450 from playing solid, but don't think the villains in the hand would have noticed.

V1 ($30) has already been stacked a couple times. Seems like he's ready to call it a night. V2 just sat down from a broken table. Has me covered. No read on his play, but he looks like a smart tech guy (glasses, tech company shirt.) OTTH.

V1 raises to $10 from UTG. One person calls and hero has AsJs in MP2. I was tempted to raise but there were several other loose players with big stacks behind me. Hero and 2 other people call including V2 in the SB.

Ts 9c 7s ($50) Blinds check and V1 shoves his remaining $20. I call hoping others will call and check down given that someone is all in.

Everyone else folds to the SB who check raises to $60. Makes a $150 pot and I'd need to call $40.

I've got 2 overs and the nut FD, but that checkraise seems really strong. Set, 2-pair, a straight. Maybe he's checkraising a draw too.

Worth calling and reevalaute on the turn based on his action? Go over him with the nut flush draw? I have a little over $400 at this point.

Call now, never folding with this much equity IP, jamming flop doesn't do much except make it easier for him to gii with better

Flat pre and flat flop is cool, we want dominated draws or weak hands to stick around.

Ap i flat again, reraising is spew

Fold is not an option here. You shouldn’t be upset that he raised to $40 more. You’re getting a great price to draw on the turn.

You have a gutter, as well.

$200 and put the rest in OTT, unless V does it for you.

I think there's some merit to raising pre-flop here. If you 3! to ~40, you can get value from EP and try to isolate in position and I wouldn't even mind if both players came along. Just calling here will give players behind you a good price to call or leave you open to 3! which can be awkward for you.

Though it's super close since AJs is a good enough hand to play multi-way, I don't mind the flat pre here but just putting it out there for a possibility maybe against more LAG player types.

AP, I think flatting the raise on the flop is probably best. Even if you shove over the top, you still have to beat V1 for a pot of $110. I don't think V1 is completely bluffing here, at worst they have two overcards. So essentially, shoving over the top, you will win $40 by getting V2 to fold. Just call and re-evaluate turn.

I'm ok with preflop. It's a smallish raise relative to everyone else's big stack, so we're just trying to entice everyone else in to play deepstack poker with them with our nice multiway hand (and kinda ignoring the shortstack raiser and not even too worried if he's dominating us).

Think I'm fine with just flatting the flop. Raising and then getting cold 3bet would suck, we're fine inviting along draws that are drawing ~dead, and with a bunch of the pot protected we'll often be able to get to the river to realize our equity.

I just call the check/raise. Check/raise in a multiway pot with it partly protected is typically pretty strong, imo. We have more than enough outs (noting we also have a gutshot) to continue to see a turn for this price. If we raise and get jammed on (which there is a good chance of happening) we mostly just get in huge stacks behind as a decent dog.

GcluelessNLnoobG

I raise pre. I know a lot of people like flatting, but I definitely raise. I probably raise the flop, too, but I can get behind a call. Again, I sometimes re-raise and sometimes flat V2's raise. Since he's an unknown, flat is OK, but we have two overs, nut flush draw, and a gutshot -- I just commit.

The problem with just flatting is that we might not get paid if the flush hits and if he's any good, he'll put serious pressure for us to continue if we don't hit. Even if an A or J comes, we have a serious decision to make.

@ Java

I'm too lazy to math / stove, but would be an interesting exercise to compute the EV of getting all the chips in versus a straight/set/twopear (which would be the typical check/raising hand in a multiway partly protected pot). My guess is that it would be a fairly ugly result.

GcluelessEVcalculationnoobG

V2 can't have like a T9/JT sorta hand if he can have a straight/two pair? He's chosen the wrong sizing, but ought to realize that knocking you out is a good deal for him. I guess K9 or 98 are theoretically possible as well?

Regardless, I'm in the call camp, but I don't think it can be all that ugly of a result, just because the set is the worst case for us and we're only a 2:1 dog there, we've got 41% against J9.

We have been so passive in this hand, SB could show up with anything. I assume everyone is just giving up to a decent-sized turn bet if we don't hit a flush or an 8? What do you do if an A comes? J? Just fold? Do you think you'll get paid if the flush comes?

I don't mind the flat, but I would have raised pre and/or raised V1's flop bet, so I wouldn't be here. I don't like passive play, because look where we are! We'll have to fold a huge hand on the turn if we don't hit -- we are just praying V2 checks a blank turn -- or even an A. Gross.

ProPokerTools simulator says that if we give him a range of ONLY sets, all two pair, and straights (even all NS connectors/one-gappers), then we still have 41.2% equity. If we add in all the hands that might have an 8, like K8, T8, 98, etc, our equity goes to 52%.

If we include the times someone does this with hands like AT, JT, etc, it seems like it's a good spot to raise with the intent of GII as we definitley want to see two more cards. Although, I can get on board with just calling since if we miss the turn, we really only lost $40 more, but it would still feel crappy to have to fold to a turn bet.

BTW - In general, check raising only $40 more in this spot and this much money already in the pot certainly doesn't feel like a bet to try to protect a strong hand against a draw. It feels more like a top pair with a draw kind of hand trying to get you to fold two random overs, but sometimes people bet weird amounts on really wet boards, so i suppose anything is possible.

I wouldn't read too much into the 3bet sizing; after all, it's still a "standard" 3x raise (albeit to a small bet). And he's still check/raising in a semi-protected multiway pot. He's likely always doing this with his twopear+. So it comes down to how often he does this with his pair + draws; I'm not sure your average run-of-the-mill player (is that who we are dealing with?) does it that often with those hands.

GimoG

12, perhaps 18 outs twice with dead money in there? Raise flop yourself. As played, raising will probably mean getting it in, so depending on how aggressive you want to be you can still raise, or flat. Getting it in on the flop is not a bad outcome. If the turn bricks out, and you're facing a large bet you might have to fold your considerable equity. I probably lean towards getting it in on the flop.

I'm near 100% raising this hand PF to $45-$50. In my experience playing AJs or AJo passively PF leads to extremely unprofitable situations. Raising this hand preflop is way more profitable then flatting and letting 2-3+ more player into the pot and having to play from MP.

Interesting. Yeah with all these draws, I figured I'd be in ok shape even against a set. That's why I considered going over. AP I called.

Turn 2c ($190) and then he bet $160. At this point, pretty clear fold right?

That's why I was wondering about whether I should have called the flop or raised. Made my hand somewhat obvious and he was able to bet me off. OTOH, didn't lose much either.

A 3-bet PF would have simplified the hand, might try that next time. Thanks everyone!

I like the flat pre as a way to get more value out of a solid hand that plays well multiway rather than isolating the short stack. Definitely 3 betting AJo to isolate the shorty. It's close, but you have better chance of winning a big pot with a flat pre IMO.

Pretty hard to make a mistake on this flop with this much equity. Calling and keeping in worse draws is good. Raising and putting pressure on two pair/set type hands is fine too. Depends on your reads.

Blue horseshoe likes seeing a river.

On the turn we're only getting a little over 2:1. We need about 3:1 to chase all our flush/straight draws and that's assuming they're all clean; for example, if he's got a set then we only have 10 clean flush/straight outs and need closer to 4:1 plus poor RIO on our dirty outs. I'm not giving much weight to our high RIO overs once he bets large again on the turn. Our gutshot brings in 4-to-a-straight and our flush draw is semi-obvious, so likely low IO at this point.

Gnicehandifwefoldedtheturn,imoG

Definitely fine to give up on the turn. We did not improve in any way, and the 2c was a great brick for already made hands.

Odds to draw aren't there.

We have a winner. I might even go up to $60 preflop.

I think we're in far too early position to attempt to isolate, especially with loose / big stacks behind (and we can easily run into a dominating hand / OOP / get reraised and have to fold all our equity while putting in a huge chunk of $$$).

Gmeh,imoG

If we're getting 4b, we're probably going to get 3b as well. A 4b gives us much more information than a 3b does.

Even loose spazy players typically tighten up vs a 3b preflop compared to just a standard open.

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

We have different strategies by far though. I'm okay playing big pots preflop against a villain(s) range(s) that I think I'm ahead off. Even if I'm only 60/40.

You seem to be more about minimizing risks (and potential gains) and nickle&diming to death

Sent from my VS996 using Tapatalk

Time to fold. Sick. I really hope you didn't hit the river (and I hope you weren't ahead with A high ).