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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 09-20-2017, 09:51 AM   #1
pgcounty
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5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

5/T at National Harbor.

1800 Effective.

UTG is an older nitty passive. Lots of limping and folding. Haven't seen much other than that, other than him betting a flop and the opponent folding.

Mid Position has been standard C-betting and generally acts like he plays poker for more than just fun.

Only been at the table for an hour or so, so that's what I got.

UTG limps.
Mid calls.
Hero on button raises to 65 with AJ
Blinds fold. Both limpers call.

Flop: JT3:

Both check. Hero bets $125. UTG calls. Mid raises to $300.

Hero?

Standard fold?
Does the squeeze and A clubs sway your opinion?
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:21 PM   #2
OMGSwineFlu
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

I would fold this hand.

What range of hands can we put Mid on that we beat?

1. Given the action, he's getting a very good price to draw
2. It's difficult for him to have many semi-bluffs given you hold the Ac
3. Given PF action, your range is uncapped and you probably have a larger value range {Sets,AA-TT,AJ,KJs,QJs,JTs} than semi-bluffs {AK,AQ, flush draws}
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:52 AM   #3
TheGodson
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Call. That backdoor club draw really helps your hand. If another club comes on the turn you will have the implied odds to call again. You should be prepared to fold most turns though. If he checks the turn, check back. If he checks the river you may be able to get a little bit of value there.

This is a good check-raise board for non-preflop raisers. I suspect that you are beat by 33 and JT. There are also many str8 draws and flush draws he can have so don't quit yet. You have a decent hand.
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Old 09-28-2017, 08:21 AM   #4
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Not folding flop to this sizing
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Old 09-28-2017, 02:56 PM   #5
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

What size C/R from villain turns this into a fold?
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Old 09-29-2017, 02:24 AM   #6
TheGodson
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

$500ish. I don't feel like doing intense math right now, but it is somewhere in that range.
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Old 09-29-2017, 03:37 PM   #7
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

As played, pot is $635 with $175 to call.
$500 c/r would be $835 pot with $375 to call.

What makes this a foldable amount?

1. We now move his range to more likely to have a hand that beats us
2. We now no longer get a +EV against the range we put him on
3. The larger pot takes away our +EV plays on future streets

or is it a combination of all 2/3 the above?
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:03 PM   #8
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Quote:
Originally Posted by grant2 View Post
What size C/R from villain turns this into a fold?


500ish for me too

Villains sizing screams to me draw or at best top pair. I see recs using this sizing with Jx all the time.

The small sizing also may allow us some playability with our Ac (either getting odds to make our hand or leaves us deep enough to bluff with blocker) though I'll admit it'll still be tight given the stack sizes.
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:16 PM   #9
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Villains sizing screams to me draw or at best top pair. I see recs using this sizing with Jx all the time.
So you're saying that the combination of player type + bet sizing gives you a villain's range which is heavily weighted to draws & TP hands.

But a $500 c/r gives you a villains range which is more weighted to hands which beat you
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:17 PM   #10
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5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Yes + benefit of being ip with but blocker and deeper stacks
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Old 10-05-2017, 10:45 PM   #11
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Super standard call vs xr gonna have to play some poker on later streets tho. But his range is pretty draw heavy and you block a bunch of value combos
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Old 10-09-2017, 04:03 PM   #12
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Call flop with A clubs in hand re-eval turn
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Old 10-12-2017, 11:22 PM   #13
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

You're sweating JTs (2 combos) and 33 (3 combos). We really can't find a few combos of hands we're beating?

He's risking 300 to win the 460 in the middle, so I don't wanna fold over 40% here, and AJ is for sure in our top 60% of hands. Having the Ac sucks, but there's also straight draws and combo draws he can be doing this with.
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Old 10-13-2017, 04:11 AM   #14
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

The sizing seems fishy. Like it seems designed to fold out bluffs but keep in everything else.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:51 PM   #15
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Re: 5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

I would think you can call and evaluate turn.

Any club gives you the nut flush draw and if your opponent was beating you on the flop, may slow down.

Any ace puts you ahead of J10, though it does let KQ get there

K or Q gives you a gut shot to the nut straight


I think if he bets over half the pot on the turn on a brick, you can find a fold.
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