5/T Flop Spot with TPTK - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

5/T Flop Spot with TPTK

Post Reply Subscribe

...

09-20-2017 , 09:51 AM

pgcounty

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,183

5/T at National Harbor.

1800 Effective.

UTG is an older nitty passive. Lots of limping and folding. Haven't seen much other than that, other than him betting a flop and the opponent folding.

Mid Position has been standard C-betting and generally acts like he plays poker for more than just fun.

Only been at the table for an hour or so, so that's what I got.

UTG limps.
Mid calls.
Hero on button raises to 65 with A

Blinds fold. Both limpers call.

Flop: J

Both check. Hero bets $125. UTG calls. Mid raises to $300.

Hero?

Standard fold?
Does the squeeze and A clubs sway your opinion?

Quote

09-21-2017 , 12:21 PM

OMGSwineFlu

centurion

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 169

I would fold this hand.

What range of hands can we put Mid on that we beat?

1. Given the action, he's getting a very good price to draw
2. It's difficult for him to have many semi-bluffs given you hold the Ac
3. Given PF action, your range is uncapped and you probably have a larger value range {Sets,AA-TT,AJ,KJs,QJs,JTs} than semi-bluffs {AK,AQ, flush draws}

Quote

09-28-2017 , 06:52 AM

TheGodson

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3,056

Call. That backdoor club draw really helps your hand. If another club comes on the turn you will have the implied odds to call again. You should be prepared to fold most turns though. If he checks the turn, check back. If he checks the river you may be able to get a little bit of value there.

This is a good check-raise board for non-preflop raisers. I suspect that you are beat by 33 and JT. There are also many str8 draws and flush draws he can have so don't quit yet. You have a decent hand.

Quote

09-28-2017 , 08:21 AM

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Not folding flop to this sizing

Quote

09-28-2017 , 02:56 PM

grant2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,530

What size C/R from villain turns this into a fold?

Quote

09-29-2017 , 02:24 AM

TheGodson

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3,056

$500ish. I don't feel like doing intense math right now, but it is somewhere in that range.

Quote

09-29-2017 , 03:37 PM

grant2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,530

As played, pot is $635 with $175 to call.
$500 c/r would be $835 pot with $375 to call.

What makes this a foldable amount?

1. We now move his range to more likely to have a hand that beats us
2. We now no longer get a +EV against the range we put him on
3. The larger pot takes away our +EV plays on future streets

or is it a combination of all 2/3 the above?

Quote

09-29-2017 , 06:03 PM

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Quote:

Originally Posted by grant2

What size C/R from villain turns this into a fold?

500ish for me too

Villains sizing screams to me draw or at best top pair. I see recs using this sizing with Jx all the time.

The small sizing also may allow us some playability with our Ac (either getting odds to make our hand or leaves us deep enough to bluff with blocker) though I'll admit it'll still be tight given the stack sizes.

Quote

09-29-2017 , 07:16 PM

grant2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,530

Quote:

Originally Posted by diskoteque

Villains sizing screams to me draw or at best top pair. I see recs using this sizing with Jx all the time.

So you're saying that the combination of player type + bet sizing gives you a villain's range which is heavily weighted to draws & TP hands.

But a $500 c/r gives you a villains range which is more weighted to hands which beat you

Quote

09-29-2017 , 07:17 PM

#10

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Yes + benefit of being ip with but blocker and deeper stacks

Quote

10-05-2017 , 10:45 PM

#11

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

Super standard call vs xr gonna have to play some poker on later streets tho. But his range is pretty draw heavy and you block a bunch of value combos

Quote

10-09-2017 , 04:03 PM

#12

flopturntree

adept

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 867

Call flop with A clubs in hand re-eval turn

Quote

10-12-2017 , 11:22 PM

#13

jdr0317

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 8,231

You're sweating JTs (2 combos) and 33 (3 combos). We really can't find a few combos of hands we're beating?

He's risking 300 to win the 460 in the middle, so I don't wanna fold over 40% here, and AJ is for sure in our top 60% of hands. Having the Ac sucks, but there's also straight draws and combo draws he can be doing this with.

Quote

10-13-2017 , 04:11 AM

#14

grant2

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 9,530

The sizing seems fishy. Like it seems designed to fold out bluffs but keep in everything else.

Quote

10-19-2017 , 10:51 PM

#15

solidmussel

newbie

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 39

I would think you can call and evaluate turn.

Any club gives you the nut flush draw and if your opponent was beating you on the flop, may slow down.

Any ace puts you ahead of J10, though it does let KQ get there

K or Q gives you a gut shot to the nut straight

I think if he bets over half the pot on the turn on a brick, you can find a fold.

Quote

Post Reply Subscribe

...