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5/5 KK Entitlement? 5/5 KK Entitlement?

11-12-2018 , 02:54 PM
5/5 Commerce, villain 1 (btn) is middle aged Asian male with sunglasses, villain 2 (sb) is older Caucasian male. Hero is mid 20s caucasian male. Almost no reads as this is only my third or fourth hand at the table.

Hero opens 25 utg+2 with KsKd.
Btn and Sb call.

Flop 9c8c2d (Pot = ~80)

Sb checks
Hero bets 40 (I contemplated checking for range purposes but want to charge flush/straight draws and protect my overpair)
Both btn and sb call

Turn 4h (Pot = ~200).
Sb checks
Hero checks
Btn bets 85
Sb calls
Hero calls

River Jd (Pot = ~455)
Sb checks
Hero checks
Btn bets 170
Hero calls

Btn wins with 99. Is this just entitlement tilt w/ KK here? In my session <~24 hours prior to this, I had been extremely card dead for a very long period of time, so maybe that was a factor. I any case, I'm struggling to justify my river call here other than pure payoff wizardry. I put club draws in his range during the hand, but in retrospect I really don't think he's going to be barreling many FDs into two opponents who have already shown strength -- maybe just combo draws if any.

Value combos: 99 (3), 88 (3), 22 (3), 98s (3), T7c, QTc, maybe 44/JJ? (3?)
So if he has 17 value combos on the river, when he bets 170 into 455, I need to be right (aka he needs to be bluffing) 170/795 = ~21% of the time for this to be at least a break-even call, so he needs at least 5 combos of bluffs/hands worse than KK here.

76c and 65c immediately come to mind (busted combo draws), but the J on the river means that a lot of his other combo draws now have showdown value (QJc, JTc, etc.) and would be inclined to check back the river. 2 combos doesn't seem like enough. Would he play TT like this? AJc? At this point I'm grasping at straws.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-12-2018 , 11:19 PM
I think you should have bet the turn. What are you betting the turn with?

On the river you're getting 3.5 to 1. The SB looks a lot like a missed draw by the time it gets to the button on the river. I think there are many players in the button's position who would semi-bluff the turn and bluff the river. After your check-call a small bet on the turn I think your hand looks weird and maybe he thinks you're a donk, as all poker players think other players are donks, and that you're hand is most likely a missed draw or a small pair that never improved. Maybe it's a set or 2 pair but you didn't get raised on the flop and some players would do that as they would their big draws. I think 3.5 to 1 is good enough to call here but it of course depends on the player. Knowing the stack sizes would help.

My main beef is that you shouldn't be sitting down at a new table after playing for 24 hours especially if you can't fold if you think you should. Secondary beef is not betting the turn. Call on the river is okay. It is a bluff catcher but there aren't that many value hands and I think you're getting the right price to catch a bluff.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-13-2018 , 02:42 AM
Good point about betting the turn. I guess if I'm not betting overpairs there then my double barrel value range would basically just be sets/98s, which seems unbalanced compared to the good amount of flush/straight draws I would barrel here as well.

I was the effective stack with 475.

I agree with your point about him not raising the flop - that definitely stood out to me on later streets.

To clarify, I didn't mean that I'd been playing for 24 hours straight earlier, I just meant 24 hours prior (i.e. played a session the day before). I really didn't notice any tilt or differences in my mental game going in, and I usually don't tilt when I'm card dead, but I do feel like I played the hand a bit "auto-pilot"-y. I feel like I may have just went into check-call mode after the flop without a clear reason for doing so, and I can see why you would question that.

Thanks for the advice!
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-13-2018 , 09:53 AM
Bet bigger on the flop this is commerce not poker stars
Also don't make cry baby posts like this
You lost big deal
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-19-2018 , 01:59 PM
This is your 4th hand, throw that balance/gto stuff out the door and bet bigger (60) on this wet flop. Turn I'm still betting (160) although with 2 callers there is some merit to slowing down with 2 callers, but again wet board we should be going for value. River is check eval, there shouldn't be too many value hands other then some some Js that missed draws that we beat.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-19-2018 , 11:43 PM
I don't play 5/5, but this seems fairly standard to me and my 2/5 games play fairly similar.

You only lost 59BB against a set, doesn't seem like a terrible outcome to me. You could have had a 200BB stack and had pocket 8s where it all goes in on the flop or turn.

Other times you'll run into AA.

If this outcome bothers you that much, you can try limp/reraising with your short-ish stack, but idk how effective that is at 5/5. Seems like most people would pick up on it.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-23-2018 , 11:15 AM
This thread is exactly not how to play live poker.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote
11-29-2018 , 11:58 PM
Agree with the comments that say bet bigger OTF. Board is quite coordinated, we want to get maximum value from draws. I'd also bet OTT as the 4h really doesn't change anything; we can size down a little bit here because we don't need to charge the draws as much when there is only 1 card left to deal.

I'd probably check/fold the river? You're definitely right that the J gives SDV to many potential draws so bluffs are less likely.

But who knows what the bet size would've been if you had bet the turn; likely larger as you have shown more strength.
5/5 KK Entitlement? Quote

      
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