5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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5/10: Pocket Kings versus turn donk

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04-15-2017 , 03:27 PM

Poker_Tiger

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 149

Live 5/10. My image afaik is solid TAG.

Villian is solid TAG who I haven't seen get out of line except
maybe when he went all in preflop with AK for $1k -
Small Blind - $1.1k

Hero - $1.1 k effective stack - Hijack

Action:
1 limper (directly to my right). Hero makes it $40 to go with KK.
SB, BB, and limper call.

Flop: Q, 6, 2 rainbow

Checked around to hero. Hero bets $125. Only villian (SB) calls.

Heads up to turn: 3 (completes the rainbow)

Villain leads out $275

Hero: ?

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04-15-2017 , 03:30 PM

day'n'night

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,523

fold

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04-15-2017 , 07:56 PM

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Flop smaller

AP exploitable fold

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04-15-2017 , 08:40 PM

Berry Blossom

stranger

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 13

How would this possibly be a fold? We don't have enough information on the Villain to fold here, let alone fold an overpair. The donk bet is strong but we are at the near top of our range here on this board. We have to call and see a river.

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04-15-2017 , 10:48 PM

hagbard celine

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,584

I don't see how this is not a call.

There aren't really any 2p combos from a tight player calling your 4x iso out of the SB, so his range is something like [AQ, KQs, 66, 22], add to that the fact that he could be block betting JJ-88 and I think we can comfortably call turn and play a river.

To those folding, are you only calling QQ, 66, 45s on the turn?

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04-15-2017 , 10:55 PM

Minatorr

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 5,235

Solid TAG's range from calling out of the SB is pretty well-defined and narrow. Factor that into 5-way flop we cbet into and second his large turn donk setting up a river shove, pretty obv fold

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04-16-2017 , 08:02 AM

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Call.

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04-16-2017 , 10:28 AM

captainondeck

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 247

Call only 6 combos of sets I assume QQ is pretty much always 3 betting but let's include 1 combo of QQ making 7 combos of sets. There are 12 combos of AQ and 6 of KQ. Even if we tighten his range to KQ suited that's still 7:14

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04-16-2017 , 12:20 PM

Poker_Tiger

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 149

Thanks for the replys. FWIW I tanked folded. I didn't like folding
but I went with my read that he was super strong with the donk
bet. I asked my friend who is a very solid player his thoughts and
he said he would probably flat the donk and re-evaluate the river.
Saying he probably would fold if villain shoved the river unless
a king came of course.

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04-16-2017 , 12:37 PM

#10

diskoteque

Joey Local

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 30,420

Could be AQ

I'm def calling turn. River would depend on sizing/reads

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04-16-2017 , 03:39 PM

#11

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,667

A solid TAG shouldn't have enough worse hands here to ever make it more than a small mistake to fold. If your reads and instincts say to fold, then I'd trust them.

edit: it's pretty obvious why he'd donk the turn with a set - it lets him easily get all the money in. It's much less obvious what sort of coherent plan he could have that involves donking the turn with just top pair.

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04-17-2017 , 03:15 PM

#12

busticator

grinder

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 681

Turn is call, prob shallow enough to shovel. Fold never.

Have we redefined "solid TAG" to mean "never puts a dollar in without two pair+"? Also, how is AK gii pre for 1K in 5/10 in any way out of line? Also, how does a "solid" player achieve balance without "getting out of line" (that is, in the traditional sense of the phrase, or even in the way it's being used here)? There's some serious lack of logic/consistency here, and I don't think it's all due to trolling. Poker def ain't dead.

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04-18-2017 , 12:38 AM

#13

rbenuck4

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 2,416

Pretty clear call on the turn. What's the river?

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04-18-2017 , 09:02 AM

#14

keybattle

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 665

I have not played live for a while. So a solid tag c/c, donk turn means set on dry board? So we can fold KK here exploitably? Sounds crazy to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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04-21-2017 , 03:57 PM

#15

Ashiaku

stranger

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 9

What is the logic behind the donk as villain? Seems like anything able to call a donk bet here would also bet when checked to. He just removes your ability to bluff.

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04-22-2017 , 06:11 PM

#16

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

folding ott is just ridic

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04-22-2017 , 11:13 PM

#17

HairyLobster

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 123

Yea if he has a set then its a cooler, lose the minimum and reload.

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04-23-2017 , 12:18 AM

#18

day'n'night

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 1,523

what on earth do you expect him to have? He must be pretty ******ed to play AQ like this. We block KQ. He never has 6x... come on..

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04-23-2017 , 12:55 AM

#19

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

well there's a lot more combos of qx than sets and you basically have the best hand u can have here so calling down makes a lot of sense
And his turn lead is ******ed here no matter what he has so he can surely show up w something silly

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04-23-2017 , 10:17 AM

#20

jvds

adept

Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 1,176

Quote:

Originally Posted by keybattle

Sounds crazy to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

it is

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Originally Posted by lolposting2016

folding ott is just ridic

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04-23-2017 , 10:19 AM

#21

Jarretman

veteran

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,937

Quote:

Originally Posted by lolposting2016

I play with multiple villains (who are winners in the game, cause it's so soft) that exclusively take this weird x/c & lead line with sets and no bluffs. I don't know why they do it, but they do. Versus those types of people I'm happy to make a fold.

That being said, until villain gives us a reason to believe he's one of those people, we can't fold KK here, it is ridiculous. I don't think there's enough of a population read on 5/10 tags to range him exclusively on 6 combos of hands.

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04-26-2017 , 04:53 PM

#22

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarretman

I don't know why they do it, but they do.

I know 1 or 2 people capable of thought (so the 1%) that take this line and i belive it is to ensure 3 streets go in. I used to think it was really bad but seeing it in practice and being results oriented I understand it more now.

I do agree with the first two posters that this is a really strong line, much more so than people realize. At times in poker it's important to look past the "Lol wtf he's gotta be bad no matter what he has" thinking and instead just memorize lines. A check/call/lead line from a non-obv fish is always very strong, it's almost as reliable as a turn check raise.

All of that said...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarretman

until villain gives us a reason to believe he's one of those people, we can't fold KK here, it is ridiculous.

I agree

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04-27-2017 , 12:58 PM

#23

lolposting2016

veteran

Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 2,149

sure its fine to fold if you have a super reliable read.
in live games vs villains you play against frequently its pretty easy to tell the old white grinder who just has a set 100% here and you can just lol and fold bc his line is just so unbalanced. that said id have to be dead on rock solid sure b4 i make this kind of hugely exploitative adjustment
(think thats exactly what jarretman said tbh)

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