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5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts 5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts

01-06-2019 , 12:02 PM
8 handed. I just moved over from the must move table with 3600 and am the effective stack.

V1 UTG is a complete unknown but he looks comfortable with about 8k in front.

V2 BB is a loose semi regular. He just stacked an opponent when he raise/called with 79o and hit a straight on the turn to put his stack over 10k. He has picked up a rack as if he is leaving after the next down (time raked game), so we expect him to be defending most of the time.

I am on the SB with AK

V1 limps, folds around, hero raises to 45, BB calls, V1 raises to 125, hero calls, v2 calls

(375)

A62

Check, check, check

9

Check, v2 bets 260, v1 1200
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-06-2019 , 03:10 PM
I think I like a call here. If either V turned a FD they aren't likely to fold to a raise. However you likely have the best hand here. I'd say call and re-evaluate OTR.


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Edit
The more I think about it, the more I like a fold. V2 limp raised pre. I missed that part. V2's range is just so strong here and we don't have any redraws. Fold and find a better spot.

Last edited by I_lose; 01-06-2019 at 03:22 PM.
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-06-2019 , 06:54 PM
I would only call here if I was confident opponent would barrel river all-in every time with his missed draws, or call your river all-in with A10, AJ, AQ but give those up on the turn to a CRAI.

You block AA and I think the sizing would be smaller if he had that or a smaller set somehow. Diamonds are unlikely for either of you to have and even then the opponent would only have 18% equity so why would he bet so large if a thinking player?

I think this Villian is definitely making a squeeze given your checking twice. So just call and hope he barrels all in I think is the best line.
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-06-2019 , 10:19 PM
V1's line seems weird. No clue why he would delay c/r so large on the turn. Seems like either weird meta going on or a bad player. If he is bad it makes me want to call more.

However, folding turn is probably best since we're 360 bb effective and have no clue about how any one plays and investing 1/3 of our stack with an spr of 1 otr just to fold to a jam seems bad. Doubt we are being exploited here regularly so don't really see a need to defend.
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-07-2019 , 10:54 AM
shrug fold
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-14-2019 , 02:57 PM
Seems like a pretty easy fold given that v2 is behind you and has at minimum 3 hands in his range that beat you. If v2 somehow folds out of turn I'd probably call, but I wouldn't be loving it even then.
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-14-2019 , 03:18 PM
Raise bigger pre facing the limp, like at least 60. Just call vs the EP limp/3bet is fine 350bb deep.

Turn is a super weird spot for our range and our exact range. Our exact hand wants to lead the turn. V1 can have some AQ, Axs type hands that l/rr pre, as well as QQ/KK that might call. V2 can have lots of Axs, XdXd, 78s. Also the flop check back followed by bluffing 2 streets is not bluffed nearly enough, so we don't gain much value from V1's bluffs by checking (exploitatively imo) whereas we can get 2 streets of value from Ax type hands from either V1 or V2. Therefore from an exact holding perspective, I like leading turn with AK.

That being said, our range on the turn isn't in the greatest spot with an SPR of ~10 and 3ways with a severe nut combo disadvantage. We would likely complete the SB with 22, 66, A2s, A6s, A9s, and we would most likely 4bet aces, even this deep, given the super small 3bet sizing. So we only have 99 for nutted hands (which even that might complete pre instead of raising), whereas V2 can have 22, 66, A2s, A6s, A9s, 99 (which would all check to V1) and V1 can have AA that checked back flop. So from a range perspective, I think we have to be careful betting too much on this turn as we have a huge nut combo disadvantage and the aggregate of the other villain's ranges are uncapped with nut combos.

However, in these types of spots live (especially multiway) where it's a decision between my exact holding benefiting from a certain action vs my range not benefiting from a certain action, I like to go with the decision that benefits my exact holding.

tl;dr lead turn yourself

As played after checking and facing this action it's an easy fold. Even though I don't necessarily believe V1's ridiculous sizing/line (preflop sizing and turn sizing lead me to believe this is a weaker player) there is still V2 left to act who can have all those nutted combos (see above).
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
01-22-2019 , 10:08 AM
Thanks Jarretman, I think leading the turn would be fine but I was thinking that the BB would stab 100% of the time. He had a huge stack and had already started racking up chips and is known as a bluffy type of player so I figured he was gonna bet it for me on the turn. Having only invested 45 into the pot I was fine with folding but noted the fishiness of this line. Just makes no sense tbh
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote
02-11-2019 , 01:05 AM
Your pre sizing is too small, as Jarretman mentions. I would lead turn here and agree with Jarretman's logic there as well. As played I'd just let it go. A big raise in a multiway pot is pretty strong. We might be ahead of ranges, but when we don't get to close the action and act first on river, our reverse implied odds are terrible here.
5/10 Odd hand with "effective" second nuts Quote

      
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