Weekend 5/10 1k cap NL game. I've been grinding for a long while and have ~ 2.6k to start.

Me: Tightish player, though I have shown a willingness to gamble it up in spots (earlier was caught bluff xr river on AK9-T-5 against a small river bet w/ JJ, open raising and then 4 bet isolating a guy who was randomly going all in with A8dd, calling off against a erratic player's donk jam of 280 into 465 on As9c8c with QsQc, etc). Have had a very low flop cbet percentage in this session due to the constant multiway action. Not sure anyone in this hand notices, or cares if they do.

V1 (2.6k+): Has been playing for a long while w/ me as well. Bad, quiet Asian man who has been involved more often than not in pots. Has shown a bluffing propensity, a moderate three betting propensity, and seems totally unfazed by raise sizes when he wants to come in (when I've exploitatively 7x'd limpers before, he's still been more likely to call these raises than fold to them). Also seems to give loose action postflop. He barely covers me.

V2 (620): Old man who doesn't really seem to know what's going on at poker. Is constantly confused when it's his action, and it usually results in him limping. No other reads.

Action:

V2 limps, I raise 88 to 55 in MP with 88 (I've been experimenting all session w/ isolation sizes, right now i'm going a little smaller). Unknown player calls, V1 calls BTN, loose bad BB calls, V2 calls.

(280): J87

Checks to me, and I bet 205. V1 tanks a while and puts his face on his hand and calls (this isn't necessarily a tell since he's done this before, but not every time he's faced big bets). Fold to V2 who check raises...to 500. Leaving himself $65 back.

What's our best course of action here:

1) Flat (V1 is almost certain to continue behind and leave us with a little over 1 PSB left)
2) Minraise to isolate the all in
3) Jam

Given there is no flush draw, I would flat the 500. My intentions with this call is to have V1 continue with his Jx type hands. There are really only two bad turn cards a 9 or T and I'd assume this will offset the times he stacks off when he hits two pair/trip Js on the turn.

I'm leaning towards flat and then leading brick turns. Yeah it'll look super strong and face up even to a fish. But at least you'll likely get him to put in the flop 500 before he figures it out.

^What they said.

( ) locked down board

I don't think I'd raise with anything.

If you ever expect V1 to have J7s, 87o, J8s/o, 77 and play them as a call on the flop then I'd probably jam. Even if V1 folds 56, 96, JT, TT, 99, 98, 76, Tx bdfd, 9x bdfd etc it's not even bad because we deny his equity, unless we assume that V2 has exactly & only T9 in which case we really want V1 to be in the pot with those holdings

But if we assume V2 to be something like T9, pair + sd, sets, 2pairs, some random amount of lol-slow played overpairs, and Jx then getting V1 to fold those types of holdings isn't bad, even though he only realizes the equity of one card if we donk jam any turn

If you and V1 started the hand 500bb deep this would be a super cool spot imo

FWIW I do think this villain can have all of the above hands and even stuff like J7o or 96o.

Ya pretty easy jam then. There's tonnes of bad turn cards for those types of hands and you might not get more value while just letting him realize his equity and V1 can definitely have worse hands and call you.

Kind of a weird spot due to stack sizes and the fact the old, clueless man left himself with $65. Flatting the c/r is clearly best as it keeps V1 in there with a lot of hands that we want to keep in(AJ/KJ etc); shutting these out would be awful. On a two-tone flop I prefer ripping it in early, but certainly not on this rainbow one.

The turn will play out a bit weird(if V1 calls the c/r with us), as the old man will auto ship that $65 into a $1780 pot and we'll have ~$2050 left to play with. Do we just jam it in on all non-T/9 turns? That's a pretty big and scary looking bet. If the turn is a T or 9 do we just call the old man's tiny all-in and see what V1 does? What if turn is a total brick like a rainbow 2? If so, do we then flat the $65 or raise small for value?

I think the initial question - what to do vs the c/r - is obvious; the real conundrum lies in what to do on certain turn cards. I'd love to hear some thoughts on this.

Do you expect V1 to call with Jx no straight draw after the x/r and we call? I guess by villain's description he could be capable of doing that but it definitely wouldn't be my baseline assumption that V1 calls hands like AJ/KJ after the x/r and a call.

Also even if he does call with AJ/KJ type hands how much value are you expecting to get oop with a dead side pot on later streets that aren't pairing his kicker or a jack?

I wouldn't say that calling the flop x/r is obvious at all; I think you're overestimating the EV of having V1 in the pot still, especially because we're oop in a dead side pot.

I dunno maybe you're right, but just blasting it all here for so much doesn't sit right with me. Are we just doing it to avoid an uncomfortable spot if a four-straight rolls off?

It's not like we are gonna get bluffed off our hand with a dry side pot.

But we're also unlikely to get value from any hand on the turn - that didn't improve - that isn't going to already call our flop jam anyways. So where's the EV of "keeping" V1 in the pot?

I think the value of denying V1 equity and potentially stacking hands like two pair and 77 - that didn't raise flop (and who knows, we could get called by JT cause lol pot odds and he puts us on aces) - vastly outweighs the possibility of keeping villain in with Jx no straight draw to get value if he hits his 5 outs on the turn.

I'm still not sure it's a fair assumption that V1 is going to call Jx no straight draw even though it's only $295 more but whatever.

i prefer calling bc i expect v1 to overcall Jx no draw a decent amount, if not most of the time. its only 300 into 1500 when it gets to him and i don’t think flatting the 500 will appear as strong as it is. he can also still backraise if he flatted 2p/77 the first time around and is probably more likely to want to gii with something like bottom 2 facing a flat of the 500 than a jam from hero.

if we don’t expect Jx no draw to call much/at all, then I would favor a ~min raise. imo he’s probably going to be fairly inelastic between 300 into 1500 and 600 into 1800 with his p+draws, and there are a lot of those. if we expect him to fold p+draw to a minraise the i guess id just go ahead and raise big/jam.

Seems like a call. I don't see much reason to try and deny equity from V1 because we are completely unable to deny equity from V2 at this point (who may have T9, JT, J9 already)... so if we are going to have to hold against V2's range, might as well throw in another opponent.

We've still got boat outs even if the miserable 9, T comes on the turn

And when the turn bricks, we can bet $500. Then jam most rivers.

I feel like you cant have it both ways. You can't think hes going to fold Jx to the 300 getting whatever to one and also think its a possibility that he yolos it in against a JAM with top pair and a gutter.

Never said he'd call Jx with a gutter against a jam

call. we already sized up on flop. we gonna have a 1650 pot and villain has about 2050 left. Can go 8-900 turn, shove

Shoving is a big raise here on flop. also looking at this combo wise we block 8s, so he really left with OESD and Pair + gutters + low frequency 2 pairs cause we block a connected card.

If he has 77 he is never folding anywehre.

[x] flat
[ ] do anything else

If we jam we shut out two pair, jx, and we lose to t9, jj sometimes too.
We c-bet big into a multiway (73%) so he could have jj and t9 on this board ip.

Why min raise (3bet the flop) here, we have 2nd set on a straight board facing a call of a big bet, and a jam. Are we not getting a little carried away with overplaying our hand?