Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-30-2010, 11:13 AM   #1
McStinky
adept
 
McStinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 846
5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Horseshoe Hammond 5/10, 7-handed.

Villain is a young player who plays online. He moved to the table a few hours ago with his buddy, and I think I heard them making fun of live players and trying to guess someone's VPIP or whatever. He seems to be a decent player. Has been winning, not playing too loose or too tight. I probably appear to him to be a decent tightish player. I felt like I appeared pretty conservative, folding to lots of raises postflop.

Effective stacks 1500.

I am in the HJ with 57.

Preflop
One weak limper and I make it 50. Villain reraises to 170, limper folds. This would be a good spot for villain to be 3-betting light, but I don't know too much about how he plays. Not sure what to do here. Since I don't know him too well, I guess folding is a good move. But if I suspect a light 3-bet, it's OK to call or 4-bet here sometimes, right? I opt to call.

Flop (365): 58J
I check and he bets 230. I call.

Turn (825): A
I check and he bets 350, leaving 750 behind. He knows the ace is a scare card for me, so if he is bluffing, I think it is reasonable to assume he would continue with almost his entire bluff range. The problem is his small betsize. If he wants me fold, why does he bet so small? It's possible that he bets that amount to leave a half pot bet for the river. Since he is an online player, he may care about balance and standardizing bet sizes, so he may just use that sizing with his entire range. So do I just give up here since I am kind of lost? It hurts me to fold here since he could have 3-bet me with a pretty wide range, and given the way he cards came down, his range could still be really wide here.
McStinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 11:19 AM   #2
Zetoran
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,260
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Don't call 3bets from good players oop with 57s?
Zetoran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 11:25 AM   #3
jimmyvjv13
Life Grinder
 
jimmyvjv13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Repping Aces @ZepHendrix
Posts: 4,979
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

You want to show an internet kid who's boss, so you flat over 1/10 of your stack pre OOP with 57s?

That should show him.

Last edited by jimmyvjv13; 07-30-2010 at 11:25 AM. Reason: damn, zetoran beat me to it.
jimmyvjv13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 11:29 AM   #4
jimmyvjv13
Life Grinder
 
jimmyvjv13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Repping Aces @ZepHendrix
Posts: 4,979
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Three of the guys I play hoops with say lately there's a lot more "internet kids" that are playing the 5/10/20 game that runs M/W/F.
jimmyvjv13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 11:52 AM   #5
McStinky
adept
 
McStinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 846
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyvjv13 View Post
You want to show an internet kid who's boss, so you flat over 1/10 of your stack pre OOP with 57s?

That should show him.
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
McStinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 12:00 PM   #6
solfege
grinder
 
solfege's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 478
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

This might be shocking news for OP but it's okay to let yourself get outplayed a little bit on occasion. Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
solfege is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 12:57 PM   #7
jimmyvjv13
Life Grinder
 
jimmyvjv13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Repping Aces @ZepHendrix
Posts: 4,979
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
um, if he's 3-betting u wide its more of a case to not iso 57s in MP OOP for one. Second, just because he's three betting u wide doesn't mean u should flat a hand like this OOP.
jimmyvjv13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 12:58 PM   #8
JumanjiBoard
See my DFS Coaching Thread
 
JumanjiBoard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SDSU got the fake experts mad
Posts: 11,589
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

but he's 3betting me wide bro
JumanjiBoard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:00 PM   #9
kwansolo
old hand
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,985
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege View Post
Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
blasphemy
kwansolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:05 PM   #10
Zetoran
old hand
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,260
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
If you think he's 3-betting you wide you can expand your calling range, but 57s is behind even the widest of ranges. And you're out of position, people 3-bet wide in position because opponents will make mistakes like you made and call oop with hands they can almost never continue with.

If you want to make a play so bad you can't contain yourself, 4bet him, don't flat oop with junk.
Zetoran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:18 PM   #11
shorn7
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,497
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
I know you shouldn't usually put that much in with a suited connector pre, but what if I strongly suspect he is 3-betting me with a very wide range, and I have a good image and plan to checkraise lots of flops?
I think it would be better to 4-bet preflop or fold than flat. Flatting just puts you in a ton of crappy spots with 150 blinds that you don't want. if u had 3k, different story.

I think you can find a better spot against this kid and I would likely have just folded to the 3-bet. But IMO, 4-bet is much better if you smell something fishy than flatting with these stacks.
shorn7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:55 PM   #12
novel20
old hand
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,715
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

What u should do now is to check minraise and show him a 5. If he called, just go all in in the dark. This will show him who is the boss.

Where is Andrew Song now? He is a live boss. Ask him for advice.
novel20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 01:57 PM   #13
SABR42
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SABR42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: printing money
Posts: 21,868
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by novel20 View Post
What u should do now is to check minraise and show him a 5. If he called, just go all in in the dark. This will show him who is the boss.
Haha this.
SABR42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 02:04 PM   #14
negipai98
veteran
 
negipai98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,726
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Agreed with most of what has been said here so no comment in that regard.

Regarding your read, you mentioned he was not too loose and not too tight, and that your image was tight and conservative. As such, why are you so convinced that villain is 3-betting light? Does not compute...
negipai98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 02:45 PM   #15
ziggyzaooo
old hand
 
ziggyzaooo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,936
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by solfege View Post
Even Phil Ivey will fold to a 3bet from an aggrotard every now and then.
lol what
ziggyzaooo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:01 PM   #16
McStinky
adept
 
McStinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 846
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by negipai98 View Post
Agreed with most of what has been said here so no comment in that regard.

Regarding your read, you mentioned he was not too loose and not too tight, and that your image was tight and conservative. As such, why are you so convinced that villain is 3-betting light? Does not compute...
Yeah I was trying to read his mind a little too much here. I figured that since he was an internet guy, and this looked like a good 3-bet spot to an internet guy, that he would 3-bet me. Better not to make these guesses, I know.
McStinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:13 PM   #17
javi
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,428
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
Yeah I was trying to read his mind a little too much here. I figured that since he was an internet guy, and this looked like a good 3-bet spot to an internet guy, that he would 3-bet me. Better not to make these guesses, I know.
Well you're right, it is a good spot for a competent internet player who is comfortable playing in a 5/10 game to squeeze you like this. Those are all enough reasons to go for a 4bet imo. I mean you werent exactly raising 57s for value in the first place, so **** your hand and go with your read. Sure you can flat and check raise (which you didnt), but this is infinitely more complex, and look at the situation you're in now.

Anyway it sounds like you know what to do next time, either fold and try to get a better read on him, or 4bet like a boss.
javi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:39 PM   #18
AintNoLimit
See my coaching listing
 
AintNoLimit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: las vegas
Posts: 6,402
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

4 bet would have been the way to go. We just are not deep enough for 75s to work very well, so i would have waited for a different holding for flatting OOP.
AintNoLimit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:53 PM   #19
McStinky
adept
 
McStinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 846
results

Thanks for the responses. I have lots of experience with live 5/10, but I've avoided playing against the internet guys for the most part, so I'm uncertain about these types of situations.

By the way, I shoved the turn, he tanked forever, told me that since I'm so tight, he can't think of a hand besides AA that my line is consistent with, then folded JJ face up.
McStinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:53 PM   #20
fds
Pooh-Bah
 
fds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,700
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

forget. I was just being an ass to OP. Pre and flop are obviously terrible and no need to go into more.
fds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:54 PM   #21
fds
Pooh-Bah
 
fds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 3,700
Re: results

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
Thanks for the responses. I have lots of experience with live 5/10, but I've avoided playing against the internet guys for the most part, so I'm uncertain about these types of situations.

By the way, I shoved the turn, he tanked forever, told me that since I'm so tight, he can't think of a hand besides AA that my line is consistent with, then folded JJ face up.
wrote my post before I saw this, and either (1) you're lying, or (2) he's just terrible. I strongly suspect the former.
fds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 03:57 PM   #22
McStinky
adept
 
McStinky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 846
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by fds View Post
I was going to rip OP a new *******, but jloc would (rightfully) scold me. Basically, OP, if you just drew straws or asked a ******ed monkey what to do on each street, you would have played the hand better.

Fold or 4bet pre (I prefer to 4bet with blockers, but this is fine here). Fold or raise otf. Call/Call is the aboslute worst line to take.
OK just joking he snap called with the JJ.

Anyway, I did have a plan. It was to keep calling as long as more scare cards came that he could bluff! Yes, now I see that that was stupid.

Moving up to the 5/10/20 game next week, if any of you are in the Chicago area, come and get it!
McStinky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 04:10 PM   #23
jimmyvjv13
Life Grinder
 
jimmyvjv13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Repping Aces @ZepHendrix
Posts: 4,979
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

Quote:
Originally Posted by McStinky View Post
OK just joking he snap called with the JJ.

Anyway, I did have a plan. It was to keep calling as long as more scare cards came that he could bluff! Yes, now I see that that was stupid.

Moving up to the 5/10/20 game next week, if any of you are in the Chicago area, come and get it!
loooooool, teh J and teh J good hand imo. You showed him.
jimmyvjv13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2010, 10:38 PM   #24
slik
old hand
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: The best player who will ever be.
Posts: 1,571
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

fold pre OR 4-bet pre, but if you want to play the hand: lead flop / c/r flop / basically something other than repeatedly calling out of position not knowing what the hell is going on because even if he has complete air, two overs have 25% equity on you

btw, fyi i've noticed internet players don't 3-bet to that size preflop as a bluff
slik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2010, 05:48 AM   #25
Clayton
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
Clayton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 31,851
Re: 5/10 live I want to show an internet whiz kid who's boss

5 star thread
Clayton is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive