Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyAIC
1. What do you mean by board coverage? My first guess is it has something to do with blockers? Not sure what 19 outs you're referring to, can you clarify? does villain think we're calling a 3-bet with 87 or 108?
By board coverage I mean that we have a range that could potentially contain some really nutted combinations on most run outs. We definitely shouldn't just call hands for that reason but it's an additional factor to consider and having backdoors, A hogh, etc all makes this hand a reasonable candidate for including in some range that proceeds to the turn whether by raising or calling.
Not sure where I got 19 outs what I think I meant was 19% chance to setup a bluff on the turn given we potentillay hit diamonds, straight making cards, potential 2 pair bluff cards, etc. Basically any card that might make sense that belongs in our range and/or boosts the equity of our current hand on the turn to a degree.
108 is probably a stretch but it's a low 3 bet with high spr so our range could be very wide including all sets for anything under and including JJ and some better suited connectors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyAIC
2. Then in general, we agree on this whole thing. I was mostly surprised by an out of position call on the flop.
Yes I generally agree with bluffing in position being better etc. I am not totally convinced folding is better but it could very well be. Just at a glance of the hand I didn't see anything glaringly bad. If the flop bet size was larger, 3 bet larger, etc it could all change my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyAIC
3. I didn't realize V was that big of a maniac, but even if he is, a check raise is still a much better play, so that we deny any equity he might have. (hitting a king or a queen). We also want all his AJ, A10, AQ to fold so we don't get caught. If he calls after the check raise, we can shut down too. as it is, if we're checking down to him, he's gonna keep betting and we either have to risk a big bluff for a hand we could have easily either won or gotten away from on the flop, or just give up all the extra money we put in.
That all certainly makes sense. The thing that calling gets us is that it's a much smaller immediate investment now and keeps the pot smaller for bluffing later. So the risk on average might be less than what you'd risk c/r the flop completely. I would say if your only option is bluff now with what is probably very little equity or fold now I agree that fold is the better option by far.
But calling now and bluffing when we gain a little bit more equity and/or when our range is perceived to get stronger might be better than either. Sims might be able to tell us that as well.
Also as I siad it depends on what you are doing with the rest of your range, where you need bluffs for bets/raises in the hand, etc. That can all change my mind.
Also this person could just be such a maniac and is never folding any way in which case folding now is better than continuing and we should wait for made hands where we can call down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyAIC
But I think we're seeing the same answer to the hand, with just two differing opinions, one more conservative and another aggressive.
Yea I am open to other opinions/interpretations of the best way to play the hand.
I was more pointing out all things considered I could see calling this hand being reasonable.