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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 04-28-2017, 07:01 PM   #1
Jarretman
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5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Effective 2700 or close

Villain and I havent played much together. I know he plays professionally and is a reg in the 5/10. Late 20s Asian guy. Other than that no reads.

Other v is an old man coffee type but a bit more on the loose passive side.

Pre: UTG+2 limps, hero in MP raises to $50 with Th9h, villain 3bets $180 in HJ, v2 cold calls in co, hero calls, 3way to flop

Flop(665): 9c9s2h

Hero checks, villain bets 160, v2 calls, hero calls

Turn(1145) Kh, hero checks, villain bets 350, v2 folds, hero calls.

River(1895) 3h, hero checks, villain shoves for 2125, hero?

Last edited by jlocdog; 04-30-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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Old 04-28-2017, 07:36 PM   #2
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

um, snap?
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:33 PM   #3
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

What are turns?

Unless turn and river are both Q/K/A, not folding
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Old 04-28-2017, 08:43 PM   #4
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Effective 2700 or close

Villain and I havent played much together. I know he plays professionally and is a reg in the 5/10. Late 20s Asian guy. Other than that no reads.

Other v is an old man coffee type but a bit more on the loose passive side.

Pre: UTG+2 limps, hero in MP raises to $50 with Th9h, villain 3bets $180 in HJ, v2 cold calls in co, hero calls, 3way to flop

Flop(665): 9c9s2h

Hero checks, villain bets 160, v2 calls, hero calls

Turn(1145) Kh hero checks, villain bets 350, v2 folds, hero calls.

River(1895): 3h hero checks, villain shoves for 2125, hero?
Edit: forgot turn and river, my bad. Turn is Kh river is 3h
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Old 04-29-2017, 08:57 AM   #5
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

I call by slamming the chips down so hard they cause my cards to flip up
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Old 04-29-2017, 09:22 AM   #6
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Its not a slamdunk call by any means, unless we have solid knowledge about this guys 3 barrell frequenzies alongside how he plays in 3 bet pots- wich is knowledge i assume we dont have due to description of villain.

I guess you called and ran into KK for the top boat or runner runner nutflush with AQ suited or something and thats why this thread excist.
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:21 AM   #7
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

I think the decision might be a bit closer
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Old 04-29-2017, 10:37 AM   #8
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Think some of your numbers are wrong - e.g. 565 on flop.

This has to be a call. This is pretty much the best hand you can have here other than 99 and Ah9h. Also you block some of his value combos. If you want to hero fold do it with T9cc.
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Old 04-29-2017, 03:34 PM   #9
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
Its not a slamdunk call by any means, unless we have solid knowledge about this guys 3 barrell frequenzies alongside how he plays in 3 bet pots- wich is knowledge i assume we dont have due to description of villain.

I guess you called and ran into KK for the top boat or runner runner nutflush with AQ suited or something and thats why this thread excist.
good post imo but still think this hand has to be in a calling range
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Old 04-29-2017, 07:58 PM   #10
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

I'm quite the station when it comes to being near the top of our range, but in this spot I meh fold. It's really hard for him to have a bluffing frequency on this river high enough for you to call. When he jams this river, he's repping backdoor hearts+. If he had bet say 60% pot, you beat worse value bet hands like A9s, AA, discounted AK, 3-bet bluffs pre with 9x that are worse kickers (although not likely).

If river were a non 3h, I'd call for sure. Turn doesnt even being any straight draws he might want to barrel with. He has to be airballing total garbage for you to be good here. HU this is much more likely, but when a guy cold-calls his 3-bet and he gets two calls on a 992r flop, think you gotta let this go. He show you a bluff or something?
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:18 AM   #11
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

1. He's likely good enough to know a flop ck overcall+turn ck call is 9x+
2. He's likely good enough to know that he doesn't know that you're good enough to fold 9x when the flush completes.

I mean good for him if he's 1/3p, 1/3p, shove bluffing readless w KcAh, given above, I Fold.

Last edited by Amanaplan; 04-30-2017 at 01:24 AM.
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:24 AM   #12
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Fold
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Old 04-30-2017, 10:47 AM   #13
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

I'm calling here every day.

It is not snap call, but I'm pretty happy calling here.
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Old 04-30-2017, 11:03 AM   #14
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Looking at the betsizing he bet very small, very small, huge. You block pretty much any value hand he could have besides KK, I call this.


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Old 04-30-2017, 11:43 AM   #15
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

I just think his bluffs are never betting so small on turn. Like if he has AQ or AJ or something he's not going to try to get two people off our hand by betting a quarter of the pot. And if he's betting small to get a good price on his draw well he got there too.
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Old 04-30-2017, 12:50 PM   #16
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5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Do you think he would bet so much for value on the river though once he hits? Must be a flush is what you are giving him I assume, which means he wants value from worse flushes yet there are full house possibilities from the paired board.

I dunno I would think a flush wouldn't bet so big and he has very few full houses, and here are very few flush combos he could have just based on card removal. I just see a story that doesn't make sense. But I understand your viewpoint and hey I'm here to learn

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Old 04-30-2017, 12:52 PM   #17
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Yea but you can still beat aa/ak 98s rare 97s so your not rly sitting there w a pure bluff catcher
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Old 04-30-2017, 01:32 PM   #18
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Are you jamming any of those hands for value against an unknown when the bdf completes? I suppose hero has limited flushes, but 98 isn't quite a value bet.
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Old 04-30-2017, 02:18 PM   #19
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

He could have KK too

Even though it's a paired board it's very hard for someone else to have a boat given the action and the board

No particular holding really makes sense for villain but ime the retarded lines culminating in willingness to get the entire stack in are not bluffs
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:34 PM   #20
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

given the fact villain is described as

I know he plays professionally and is a reg in the 5/10.

does that increase his bluff % at least a little? may or may not sway the fold/call decision, just curious
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Old 04-30-2017, 03:58 PM   #21
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Yea but you can still beat aa/ak 98s rare 97s so your not rly sitting there w a pure bluff catcher
AA/AK/97s a good pro/reg doesnt overbet jam these OTR when backdoor hearts complete and flop was 992r. Think about it for a minute.

We beat hands like 87hh/76hh, but that's about it.
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Old 04-30-2017, 05:44 PM   #22
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

i think we need to consider that a good player is capable of turning his hand into a bluff. why would he value bet for over potsize otr, im curious results and guess im repeating myself so ill stop here but the story just doesnt add up to me unless he has the 2 combos of ajhh or aqhh and decides to jam for value into a paired board.
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Old 05-03-2017, 12:31 PM   #23
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Is this a call purely because we beat some value hands? My thinking was that it's only a call if we assume villain has some bluffing freq OTR because we don't beat enough value hands for it to be a call.

But I mean it's 5/10 in 2017 so might be a huge mistake to assume this villain doesn't have at least some bluff freq

The thing about the hand that confuses me the most is why would he take this sizing with a value hand? Why wouldn't he try to set up a <pot shove OTR if he has KK?
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Old 05-03-2017, 01:20 PM   #24
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

Because your perceived range ott is exactly pairs, 9x, 22.
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Old 05-03-2017, 04:44 PM   #25
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Re: 5/10 260ish BB deep in 3bet pot facing river overbet vs good reg

^. I think those are the only hands you can have. 1010-QQ, 9x, and 22
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