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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 12-06-2017, 06:42 PM   #1
ylac
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5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Game is 5/10/20, $1-5k buyin. Table is good mix of recs/regs, pretty social with fun/gambly vibe.

V1 (MP): Asian rec in late 20s, first time I've seen him. Seems a bit fishy, like to pot his whole range on flops including gutters. Bit loose/passive pre. Can be aggro post. Haven't seen him raise post yet. 4k.

V2 (BB): Good young white TAG reg. Plays more GTO style. Been quite card dead this session. 3.5k.

H (SB): Young Asian TAG reg. Been playing pretty solid this session, up maybe 3k. Covers.

V1 limps in MP, H raises to 100 in SB with KKsh, V2 flats in BB, V1 flats.

Flop (320): T94cdc. H leads 175, V2 flats somewhat quickly, V1 instantly makes it 900. H?

If we flat flop, what's our plan for various turns? If V2 overcalls flop, I think we can give up on a lot of turns. Does anyone like checking flop/betting smaller or is this just results-oriented thinking?
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:39 PM   #2
proBono
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

as played:

I fold .. TT/99 is unlikely, but so many turns suck for us and with V2 in the mix I just don`t know what to do here. We are like never a big favorite.

In general: I like a check on this flop. Maybe with the intention of RR if V1 bets.
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:01 PM   #3
diskoteque
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Fold
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:16 PM   #4
shorn7
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

That flop smashed described V's range pretty hard and like half the deck we hate on the turn. I probably just let it go.

This hand displays why playing a big pair OOP is hard multi-way on tons of flops. I think a c/c flop/eval turn line here is fine as it works for pot control as well as potentially limiting losses with a hand that looks like a value hand on its face, but is probably more of a bluff catcher vs more than one opponent on a board like this. Seems weenie, but just don't think we can extract confident value all that often in this spot.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:50 PM   #5
pilliapina
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Make it 120 or even 130 pre to exploit the loose fishy dude and because you are OOP to the whole table. Yeah, folding flop can't be that bad against the raise though I don't mind betting given the opponents.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:20 PM   #6
iamallin
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Hard to fold this specific hand.

I would call and look to play some turns.

Then again I am no 10bb ph winnah
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #7
ylac
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Cool, I thought I was being very nitty/scared money to even consider checking flop.

Results:
Spoiler:
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:09 PM   #8
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Folding is pretty silly here otf but also the flop sizing should be way bigger on this board like 75% works much better for your draws and 10x+
You also don’t block and of the draws and there’s tons of them.
Tt will also 3b with some pretty decent frequency. As will 99. (But p10s is definitely getting 3b much more often)
I’d be tempted to 3b his raise at a pretty high frequency bc his range should be lots of draws. And again I think your blockers are quite good here for calling.

Last edited by lolposting2016; 12-08-2017 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 12-08-2017, 11:24 PM   #9
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by proBono View Post
as played:

I fold .. TT/99 is unlikely, but so many turns suck for us and with V2 in the mix I just don`t know what to do here. We are like never a big favorite.

In general: I like a check on this flop. Maybe with the intention of RR if V1 bets.
You’re never THAT big a favorite in nlhe. X is ok but what are you betting for value here? Are you playing this flop as a pure x? You are pushing a ton of equity here and there’s tons of worse hands to get value from
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:51 AM   #10
diskoteque
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

I don’t like checking as you’re basically forced to c/c 3 streets and will get bluffed off the best hand with a higher frequency

Bet/folding is fine tho
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Old 12-09-2017, 05:09 PM   #11
lolposting2016
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

I disagree pretty strongly. This is such a massive exploit and folding now bc your afraid of losing a stack bc you’re afraid of losing a big pot is just bad poker
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:00 PM   #12
diskoteque
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Pretty confident nobody is exploiting anyone in live poker except for regs in nosebleeds where there’s a super small community
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Old Yesterday, 08:58 PM   #13
ylac
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Re: 5/10/20: KK OOP in 3way pot

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
Folding is pretty silly here otf but also the flop sizing should be way bigger on this board like 75% works much better for your draws and 10x+
You also don’t block and of the draws and there’s tons of them.
Tt will also 3b with some pretty decent frequency. As will 99. (But p10s is definitely getting 3b much more often)
I’d be tempted to 3b his raise at a pretty high frequency bc his range should be lots of draws. And again I think your blockers are quite good here for calling.
I disagree, on this board which favours the 2 Vs' cold-calling/limp-calling ranges I think it's better to use a smaller sizing otherwise we're bloating the pot with a decent hand that can't take too much heat (we're 200 straddles deep and OOP).

I think 3bing flop is overplaying our hand, we're never getting it in as a favourite and can easily be crushed by 44/T9/TT/99 and flipping with Axcc/QJcc/78cc etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016 View Post
You’re never THAT big a favorite in nlhe. X is ok but what are you betting for value here? Are you playing this flop as a pure x? You are pushing a ton of equity here and there’s tons of worse hands to get value from
Betting good Tx/sets/2p/FDs/straight draws. Checking middling Tx/9x. Overpairs we can play mixed between bet and c/c, prefer to bet JJ/QQ since we need protection against overs. Not sure if we prefer betting if we have a club vs no club.
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