Has Anyone Done Some Math on Bomb Pots? - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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Has Anyone Done Some Math on Bomb Pots?

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03-03-2017 , 11:59 PM

SuperRu

adept

Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,084

In some live games I play in, it's getting popular to do what's called a "Bomb Pot." This is where everyone puts some amount of money in the middle, usually something in the $50-$100 range depending on the stakes, and then everyone goes to the flop.

My question is basically, has anyone done the math for pots like this with percent chances of 9 random hands hitting certain board types?

Thanks.

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03-04-2017 , 03:56 AM

ronrabbit

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,662

So we are all paying an amount blind and then going to the flop?
I haven't seen this before but I imagine that realistically we should only be continuing post flop with 2pair or better and to make any real investment in one of these pots I eould want at least a set.
Seems like a fun idea though,

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03-04-2017 , 04:19 AM

rtd353

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 3,897

The math is: shorts stacks have a huge advantage. If you are not short stacked often, you will be at a disadvantage, that's all there is to it

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03-04-2017 , 04:30 AM

ronrabbit

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,662

^ agree..... If this is a regular thing, buy in for the minimum.

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03-04-2017 , 05:37 AM

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

I will play one of these types of pots once in a while, but we always run the whole board out, not just the flop and then betting continues.

I would never play in that situation.

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03-04-2017 , 09:07 AM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Why not just go out to the alley and flip coins for whatever is in your pocket?

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03-04-2017 , 09:11 AM

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

Why not just go out to the alley and flip coins for whatever is in your pocket?

It is usually the fish who like to do this and if it keeps them around and costs me $20 or $25 at a $1/$2 game, it's worthwhile in the long run. Some SS might win a $200 pot and stick around and donate it all back and you might get 8;1 on your investment.

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03-04-2017 , 09:21 AM

MikeStarr

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 7,962

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibelieveyouoweme$80k

OP said they are putting $50-$100 in.

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03-04-2017 , 09:24 AM

monikrazy

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 28,046

I use odds oracle, its quite good for this specific situation.. I have played bomb pots before

If you want to discuss specific question spots via pm or something I'd be open to it, I haven't studied it enough and would like to have a better idea of gto strat for next time I play

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03-04-2017 , 09:31 AM

#10

ibelieveyouoweme$80k

LLSNL FF Champ '13

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 12,868

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeStarr

OP said they are putting $50-$100 in.

So they put more in. I wouldn't do it the way OP describes, but I would do it if the board runs out with no further betting.

You're right, it's like flipping a coin, but it's about keeping fish happy. You don't want to be 'that person' and you can always choose to go to the bathroom and not partake.

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01-05-2018 , 11:19 AM

#11

jtm1208

adept

Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 780

My regular games have started doing these more often. I find them a great way to revitalize a dead game

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01-05-2018 , 02:31 PM

#12

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtm1208

My regular games have started doing these more often. I find them a great way to revitalize a dead game

Agreed. They are totally -EV but are that way for everyone equally so not too big a deal. However, it gets the table jumping and loosens people up so assuming the price isn't too large relative to the game (I would say 10x bb MAX), your earn afterwards can easily be that or more.

But, I like to flip coins for $ as well when not in hands so I confess that I am degen.

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01-05-2018 , 05:08 PM

#13

Jmrode67

adept

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 858

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

I can't see how it is -EV. Maybe EV neutral if you just put $X in and run it. If its putting $X in and playing it from there, there has to be a +EV approach.

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01-06-2018 , 01:32 AM

#14

Sol Reader

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9,380

It's called PIO solver.

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I use odds oracle, its quite good for this specific situation.. I have played bomb pots before

Or that.

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01-06-2018 , 01:32 AM

#15

Sol Reader

The Situation

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 9,380

Quote:

They are totally -EV but are that way for everyone equally so not too big a deal.

What?

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The math is: shorts stacks have a huge advantage. If you are not short stacked often, you will be at a disadvantage, that's all there is to it

This.

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01-06-2018 , 08:46 AM

#16

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

^^^^^
They are -EV because of rake/BBJ drop/toke.

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01-06-2018 , 01:12 PM

#17

thin_slicing

grinder

Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 550

Of course putting money in blindly if you have an edge is -EV. Sometimes you have to give a little loose action though.

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01-06-2018 , 02:34 PM

#18

Askesis

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 150

All the nits hate flips because they are too adverse to losing; they want their "guaranteed" small wins with low risk, they arent playing to maximize their profit. That being said, I'm always down for racing it out. It's slightly -EV because of rake, but I find it more than makes up for it by making the game more gambly, getting people stuck and tilted, and giving big stacks to droolers who have no business with a big stack. It also helps my image and make me look like a gambler. I've never played a bomb pot, but it seems like lots of the same benefits with the added perk of being able to use your postflop edge.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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01-06-2018 , 04:40 PM

#19

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by BackDoorFlush

^^^^^
They are -EV because of rake/BBJ drop/toke.

How? If you're playing postflop better than the others then no. If you're doing a "put in X amount and check it down" then yes. It's the same as a regular game with preflop action excluded.

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01-06-2018 , 04:44 PM

#20

WereBeer

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,700

Seems like a nitty argument, it may or may not be -EV but the point is that it reduces our (presumed) edge, consequently it's less EV than playing normal poker.

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01-06-2018 , 05:46 PM

#21

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by WereBeer

Seems like a nitty argument, it may or may not be -EV but the point is that it reduces our (presumed) edge, consequently it's less EV than playing normal poker.

Are there actually games where every pot is bombed? The most extreme I've come across is doing a bomb pot every 40 minutes with a dealer change. Clearly playing bombs 100% is worse than than normal rules.

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01-06-2018 , 06:30 PM

#22

BackDoorFlush

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 2,171

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer

How? If you're playing postflop better than the others then no. If you're doing a "put in X amount and check it down" then yes. It's the same as a regular game with preflop action excluded.

Sorry, I was referring to "blind flips." Where ever player puts in X amount and checks it down to the river. Although, this whole "bomb flop" thing is pretty similar.

If every player has a starting stack of $500, and they all put $50 in the middle pre, then each player is left with a single PSB OTF. Super high variance. No gamble, no future. Keep the whales happy.

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01-06-2018 , 06:43 PM

#23

browni3141

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer

“Clearly” how? EV is probably higher for shortstackers and good players than normal rules. Probably most people will have no idea how to play these types of pots and a good player who has studied them will crush.

The edge might be too low to justify the variance, but it might not be. It’s hardly clear at all.

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