5/10 w mandatory 20 straddle, 5 handed.

FWIW at first I thought this was a standard spot, but I chatted about it with a couple of friends and I think there's some merit to looking at different options.

V1 is retired older reg, and it's his birthday. Everyone loves him, offering to buy him drinks. Relatively loose passive (will raise pre but unlikely to 4bet bluff etc.). Just lost a pot against V1 and has about 750 to start the hand, but still in good spirits.

V2 is one of best players in the room, early 30s asian guy very laggy pre and post. Running pretty hot against V1, has ~15K.

I've been at the table for about an hour, look late 20s and probably a relative unknown. I've been fairly active, only hand I've shown down (not against either V) I open limped button with Q6dd and called raise to 100 from straddle heads up 2K deep, called 105 KQ7ss flop, bet 215 on Qx turn, and bet 315 on Ts river and got called (it was good). Have ~1800 to start the hand.

Hand:
V1 makes it 75 pre, I call otb w AsAd, V2 in straddle calls.

Flop 532hh. V1 bets 85, I flat, V2 makes it 450. V1 ships for remaining 600 or so.

Hero? I'm curious for feedback pre, otf after V1 bets, and also after V2 check raises.

Limon dilemma yet again

Lol I’m guessing you mean raise pre / raise flop?

FWIW I didn’t raise pre because V2 squeezes a lot and V1 is a lot more willing to give V2 action than if I 3bet, which imo would more often than not shut out both players

Do you think flop raise is mandatory in this spot or there’s merit to both options?

Standard is to raise pre-flop (especially ip) and from your description of the players and yourself you're likely to get a caller. Had you 3b you would have denied the correct odds for a pair to set mine, then getting it in on the flop is EV+ (AA vs a V with a flush/straight draw and a pair has >45% equity on your flop).

After flatting pre, I think calling flop bet is the worst option as you put more money in against multiple opponents and have no better idea of where you stand. You shouldn't be in this flop spot to start with but as played raise instead of calling the 85 lead bet (raise > fold > call) IMO.

Yeah idk man I never have a RFI flatting range with AA personally but I guess if someone behind you is a habitual squeezer with total garbage at a super high freq then I can get behind it.

As played just get it in on the flop 90bb deep I guess.

As played I don't think the flop flat is bad. When there is a field trap check raise followed by a loose passive player jam, I'd let this go pretty quick and remind myself why I don't flat AA pre unless I have a very very good reason to.

Yeah I guess I meant standard after I flat pre I also don't flat AA often like this ever, but given that we were playing 5-handed and I had V2 and another more aggro player behind me thought it would be a good opportunity.

FWIW I felt V2 was likely to be getting out of line with more marginal hands than usual on the flop given the dynamics (short-handed/alcohol flowing etc.), and it was getting late so V1 would probably take a stand with 88+ on this flop.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I jammed over V1, V2 thinks for 20s and calls.

Results:

You have aces. Build the pot. Raise pre.

Yeah pretty much this. I hate those replies that say "well just raise pre the rest is irrelevant" but really I don't see the need to flat aces pre in this spot...

Mr. Lag is really showing that his range is capped when he overcalls preflop. But when the low board shows up, both him and other villain are suddenly eager to shovel money in.

Maybe hindsight is 50/50, but this seems like the situation where you can accept you simply trapped yourself and fold.

What can you be beating... A5, AxH, 66, 77? pretty slim pickins vs. 2 villains.

Thanks for your feedback. But I really don't see that this situation is as black and white as you're making it seem. Maybe I didn't do a good enough job explaining the dynamic or the villains? There has been a lot of action especially between both villains, which is again exactly why I flatted preflop, because there was a good chance V2 tries to squeeze me out (this obviously won't happen every time and it's a non-standard play on my part). V2 likes to put players to the test, so his range is going to be much wider than what you gave him, and V1 knows this and therefore his range widens too. Not to mention we're shorthanded and both villains have had multiple drinks since I sat down, which is also known to widen players' ranges

Also, my line isn't exactly screaming strength. It looks pretty weak, more like 77-TT IMO which would obviously have a tough decision against the flop checkraise.

V1 had a better hand than I expected, but it was getting late and he'd finished his drink and I'm sure he would have jammed with most pocket pairs (he had less than 40 BB to start the hand). And obviously v2 had a lot more hands than just flushdraws and sets. So I was not surprised when V2 checkraised, and I expected V1 to ship...point being that although the consensus may be to raise pre, which I'm not objecting to, that doesn't mean that just because I didn't play the hand conventionally this is an automatic fold on the flop.

If you dont like the responses why bother asking the question in the first place ? The users have given their opinion and as it stands you played the hand wrong, whether or not v1 or v2 had a couple of shandys doesnt change the basis of the play, listen to the advice learn and move on

Nailed it imo.

I'm folding quickly after this flop action. Your hand is almost never good. Also, I think V2s raise is fairly bad in this spot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying your decision is black & white. In fact it looks like you are the one calling it black & white when you say it is a "standard spot".

I get what you are saying about the villain- you expected he would squeeze you, ok that's fine... But the fact that he did NOT squeeze you despite your expectation should tell you his hand preflop is probably vulnerable, i.e., his range is very easily is hit hard by a 6-high board.

Does it matter if villains put you on 77 v. AA? Either way, their bets are representing they have stronger than an over pair.

With only 1 villain, yes, calling is probably standard. But with 2 villains both suddenly want to put a lot of money in, despite facing 2 opponents each, you have to start thinking seriously that at least 1 of them is telling the truth.