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Old 05-22-2012, 02:19 AM   #151
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Great ****** post man. Glad I took the time to read it. This is one of the main reasons I go on this site, for the rare post like this that is inspirational and educational. Are you gonna be in Vegas this summer? I'd love to meet you in person.
+1

would love to buy you a beer
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Old 05-23-2012, 02:56 AM   #152
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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This sentence is the truth. It's kind an ironic evolution though.
As an aside, what do you think about the future of lhe? With a lot of rec. players wising up and shortstacking/tightening up in capped nl games I wonder why they don't just play mid stakes limit. They can play more hands, average pot is bigger, risk of ruin in any one hand is minimal, etc. Obviously ESPN made rec. players want to play nl, but now it seems like that has run it's course and the novelty has worn off for the general public, leaving the hardcore gambler as the typical fish. I can't imagine it's fun to shortstack nl if you're a degen but don't feel like losing 5 buyins every other session.
The regfish who just love being in casinos and playing cards are the only ones I see possibly migrating back to limit. They are important IMO- not because they lose a bunch of money (they lose it slowly because even though they are generally really bad, they are also generally incredible nits), but rather because they help prop games up, keeping the "open for business" sign on for when the real fish come in during non-peak hours.

Everyone else playing nl seems too infatuated with the freedom and creativity it affords IMO. And I think "all in" is as big now in the general public as it has ever been. You see it in sports ("Clipper Nation: All In", etc) as well as in other applications outside of poker, like in business or just between friends talking about levels of commitment. And the realest of fish- the ones who really control everything in live poker, they are never going back to limit unless they have to. It's like watching paint dry to them, and they'd prob rather play blackjack over limit if it came down to it.

I do think action will continue to shrink though, and that it's very possible we will all be grinding 5 dollar bb games in a few years if the economy doesn't see a significant resurgence.

That's my take anyways.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:00 AM   #153
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by dankness3 View Post
Great ****** post man. Glad I took the time to read it. This is one of the main reasons I go on this site, for the rare post like this that is inspirational and educational. Are you gonna be in Vegas this summer? I'd love to meet you in person.
Ty, I'm glad you liked it. I recall enjoying your well quite a bit as well... Not sure when I'll be out in Vegas exactly, but I'm def gonna try to fluke it up a few times this summer like always. I'll try to pm if and when I get my **** together.
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:07 AM   #154
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Op do you think Vegas has too many pros nowadays? I'm thinking about moving there again I currently live in Utah.

You said the games are tougher and I would like to play 2-5 but is all the dead money at 1-2 there?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:08 AM   #155
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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+1

would love to buy you a beer
I'm on the wagon for 2012 (prop bet) but look forward to reopening the floodgates in 2013... Also, if your location is accurate, most likely we've played together at least once.

How'd things end up with that stalker chick from your previous post itt?
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Old 05-23-2012, 03:21 AM   #156
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Op do you think Vegas has too many pros nowadays? I'm thinking about moving there again I currently live in Utah.

You said the games are tougher and I would like to play 2-5 but is all the dead money at 1-2 there?
Too many pros everywhere... If I was moving somewhere to play 2-5, Vegas would be on the very bottom of my list. Do some research in brick and mortar venues, move somewhere soft and a cool place to live.
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Old 05-25-2012, 05:43 PM   #157
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Zomg zomg. I met both limon and dgaf irl. My life is complete.
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Old 05-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #158
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Too many pros everywhere... If I was moving somewhere to play 2-5, Vegas would be on the very bottom of my list. Do some research in brick and mortar venues, move somewhere soft and a cool place to live.
I must be nuts to say this in this forum, but we are just getting regular 2-5 off at Casino del Sol in Tucson. I've been foregoing the CAZ 5-10 in the last couple of months to try to help this succeed.

At least at this point the 2-5 games are really pretty soft. And although I'm prejudiced I think Tucson is not a bad place to live.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:04 PM   #159
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Dont think you need to worry about your game becoming over run with pros anytime soon.

Also, you shouldn't be prejudiced.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:04 PM   #160
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Well I'll admit we are a little off of the beaten path down here.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:15 PM   #161
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Is your winrate better in the Venetian 5/10 or SoCal 5/10?
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:41 PM   #162
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Zomg zomg. I met both limon and dgaf irl. My life is complete.
As are ours I'm sure.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:58 PM   #163
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I must be nuts to say this in this forum, but we are just getting regular 2-5 off at Casino del Sol in Tucson. I've been foregoing the CAZ 5-10 in the last couple of months to try to help this succeed.

At least at this point the 2-5 games are really pretty soft. And although I'm prejudiced I think Tucson is not a bad place to live.
Tucson is anything but a bad place to live. Good games are like gold mines to me though, so I would never out one beyond friends (not saying what you did and what others do so often on 2p2 is wrong, just saying I wouldn't do it). I guess at 2-5 it's not the end of the world, but if you said they had a good 5-10 or bigger, I don't think it would be long before the nits/pros started showing up...

That Talking Stick 5-10 was horrific in my small sample and I would play a soft 2-5 over it anyday. I've seen the 2 main regs from there in LA recently, so maybe it's dried up completely (or maybe it's softer now that they aren't there?).

Anyways, I have lots of family in Tucson so next time I'm out for a wedding or whatever, maybe I'll stop by your game and spew off a few buyins. There's a pretty decent chance I'm the worst 2-5 player in history, especially if the buyin is capped at 500!
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:20 PM   #164
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Is your winrate better in the Venetian 5/10 or SoCal 5/10?
I played half of '08 in socal and half at the V, and I won about the same each place. '09 and '10 I played almost entirely at the V, and since then almost entirely in socal. The problem with trying to draw conclusions from my results (beyond the main problem of it being a ridiculously small sample), is that live poker has evolved and has gotten increasingly tougher/much more high variance everywhere over the last 4 years.

What makes Vegas profitable (despite the really high concentration of pros) is the low rake, the certain times of year when sportsbettors and other generally spewy groups flock, the 24 hour drink service/party atmosphere, and the super super fish who will dust off 1000 to 2000 bbs without blinking because they are on their gambol vacation or whatever.

None of ^^^ exists really in socal.

So to recap, I think all smart, good players should move to Vegas ASAP!

Imo.

Last edited by DGAF; 05-26-2012 at 05:31 PM. Reason: I remember you.
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:14 PM   #165
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I played half of '08 in socal and half at the V, and I won about the same each place. '09 and '10 I played almost entirely at the V, and since then almost entirely in socal. The problem with trying to draw conclusions from my results (beyond the main problem of it being a ridiculously small sample), is that live poker has evolved and has gotten increasingly tougher/much more high variance everywhere over the last 4 years.

What makes Vegas profitable (despite the really high concentration of pros) is the low rake, the certain times of year when sportsbettors and other generally spewy groups flock, the 24 hour drink service/party atmosphere, and the super super fish who will dust off 1000 to 2000 bbs without blinking because they are on their gambol vacation or whatever.

None of ^^^ exists really in socal.

So to recap, I think all smart, good players should move to Vegas ASAP!

Imo.
loll funny that u remember me... yea i was just curious. no intention of ever moving to socal fwiw. but i loved this thread and has caused me to spew off a couple buyins just by reading it lmao. btw are u planning on coming to vegas at all during the wsop?
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:28 PM   #166
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Tucson is anything but a bad place to live. Good games are like gold mines to me though, so I would never out one beyond friends (not saying what you did and what others do so often on 2p2 is wrong, just saying I wouldn't do it). I guess at 2-5 it's not the end of the world, but if you said they had a good 5-10 or bigger, I don't think it would be long before the nits/pros started showing up...

That Talking Stick 5-10 was horrific in my small sample and I would play a soft 2-5 over it anyday. I've seen the 2 main regs from there in LA recently, so maybe it's dried up completely (or maybe it's softer now that they aren't there?).

Anyways, I have lots of family in Tucson so next time I'm out for a wedding or whatever, maybe I'll stop by your game and spew off a few buyins. There's a pretty decent chance I'm the worst 2-5 player in history, especially if the buyin is capped at 500!
I will say that Casino del Sol is really trying - one of the better run small poker rooms I've played in. And we are trying to build the year round player pool so I guess we can take the chance of attracting a few good players. The Talking Stick 5-10 can be real good at times but the player pool is limited, surprising for such a big city, so not surprising that some of the good regs are looking for greener pastures. And a lot of the non-pros who make the Talking Stick game worth it are snowbirds I think, which means the games dry up in the hot weather. If you do come to Tucson PM me please - you can come over to the house for some pre or post game refreshments.
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Old 05-27-2012, 07:45 PM   #167
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I saw a movie this afternoon - "Jiro Dreams of Sushi" about probably the most famous sushi chef in Japan. My wife pretty much dragged me there - I thought it would be boring at best. But it was really inspiring for me - all about someone who's in his 80s and still dedicated to continuous improvement even though he's at the pinnacle. A lot of good lessons for those of us who always are trying to get better at poker no matter how long we have played.
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:24 PM   #168
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Sorry about the derail regarding "Jiro" - that message was meant for another forum - although I still recommend it for anyone who might be interested.
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:46 PM   #169
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Sorry about the derail regarding "Jiro" - that message was meant for another forum - although I still recommend it for anyone who might be interested.
lol...figured it was a foul ball, as a further derail in the same direction, I heard David Amramon on a radio program a few nights ago...a composer/musician in his eighties whom I also found very inspiring...oh, and thanks for the story DGAF, usually I'd just lurk and say nothing 8)
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:47 AM   #170
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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loll funny that u remember me... yea i was just curious. no intention of ever moving to socal fwiw. but i loved this thread and has caused me to spew off a couple buyins just by reading it lmao. btw are u planning on coming to vegas at all during the wsop?
I have a pretty weird memory. I can't remember anything I'm supposed to, but I can remember the 2 significant hands you and I played prob 4 years ago now. The first one I was pretty sure you had A high so I raise/floated the flop with like 9 high. I fully expected you to check/fold turn, but when you led I had to fold because spr got too small and I had reached my spew limit vs an unknown. The second hand I was pretty sure you had aces up and that you couldn't fold to my trips so I went for stacks. You made a good fold on the river though and got somewhat lucky that I couldn't see your 100 chips (making my shove too big).

Pretty sure you were in the 1 seat, taking a shot, and I was in the 7 seat- taking shots . Anyways, I've always found it weird that I can remember old trivial hands so clearly, but i can't remember names, birthdays, etc. Having said all that, I do remember you being pretty chill, so I hope you are doing well.

My wsop plans are up in the air- got a lot of stuff going on this summer. Gl.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:54 AM   #171
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Also, no worries about derails at all- as long as they are positive. I watch movies all the time (it's my favorite brain drain), and I appreciate a good review/recommendation just as much as the next guy. I went to the dictator tonight and thought it was whatever- wish I tried Chernobyl instead.
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Old 05-29-2012, 06:42 AM   #172
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I have a pretty weird memory. I can't remember anything I'm supposed to, but I can remember the 2 significant hands you and I played prob 4 years ago now. The first one I was pretty sure you had A high so I raise/floated the flop with like 9 high. I fully expected you to check/fold turn, but when you led I had to fold because spr got too small and I had reached my spew limit vs an unknown. The second hand I was pretty sure you had aces up and that you couldn't fold to my trips so I went for stacks. You made a good fold on the river though and got somewhat lucky that I couldn't see your 100 chips (making my shove too big).

Pretty sure you were in the 1 seat, taking a shot, and I was in the 7 seat- taking shots . Anyways, I've always found it weird that I can remember old trivial hands so clearly, but i can't remember names, birthdays, etc. Having said all that, I do remember you being pretty chill, so I hope you are doing well.

My wsop plans are up in the air- got a lot of stuff going on this summer. Gl.
Lol yea I remember both those hands also... I was taking a shot back in the day and got pwned pretty hard by you i felt lol u always had nutters... but anyways man just got back from playing at the rio 5/10 and the action is pretty good with like 8 games going at peak hours so just giving u the inside scoop on that if u ever diced to come out. Gl man
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:01 AM   #173
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I just stumbled on this thread and decided to read the whole thing. Great stuff. I have played only a little with DGAF and it is very interesting. I knew exactly what was going on but there were so many times that you just can't do **** about it. I have a few counter strategies that I won't be sharing with the world but I am hopeful I don't have to start playing every day with you DGAF as that means I can no longer win or play online and having to adjust to 30 hands/hr might make me suicidal.

Since you recall hands so well, do you know recall that hand where you donked for like pot on the river with the board something like K234A? I think I had JJ and the action was very strange but I said "wow, if you can bluff here you deserve it" and mucked. I think every hand we ever played that is what happened. I was dying to make more than one pair once vs you but I don't think it ever happened except maybe once I flopped trips in the 10/20 on QQJ or something and you made a nice fold.
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Old 05-30-2012, 07:29 AM   #174
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

"...made a nice fold"
(if you consider folding 97, a nice fold, then yeah )
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:54 PM   #175
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I just stumbled on this thread and decided to read the whole thing. Great stuff. I have played only a little with DGAF and it is very interesting. I knew exactly what was going on but there were so many times that you just can't do **** about it. I have a few counter strategies that I won't be sharing with the world but I am hopeful I don't have to start playing every day with you DGAF as that means I can no longer win or play online and having to adjust to 30 hands/hr might make me suicidal.

Since you recall hands so well, do you know recall that hand where you donked for like pot on the river with the board something like K234A? I think I had JJ and the action was very strange but I said "wow, if you can bluff here you deserve it" and mucked. I think every hand we ever played that is what happened. I was dying to make more than one pair once vs you but I don't think it ever happened except maybe once I flopped trips in the 10/20 on QQJ or something and you made a nice fold.
Surfdoc, what's up man? I hope all is well with you and yours...

The hand in question seems kind of familiar, but without a more detailed hh I don't even want to speculate as to what I might have had. That's a rough board for JJ though lol. You've seen me at some of my spewier moments ever (day 2 of some really brutal poker benders, etc) so it's possible you were good, but I doubt it. I'm usually only a total monkey whilst in position... Unless we were playing red chips, then anything is possible/likely I suppose.

As far as making more than one pair- that **** is hard to do in live poker! Also, I don't remember us battling too much when were in the same games. As you stated, you always seemed kinda card dead, and visibly frustrated because you knew I was incredibly wide at all times and you wanted to go to war but the dealers never let you.

As far as grinding live poker goes- I honestly don't think you are a good fit for it over a signif amount of hours. Obv you can beat the game, but you are too refined, too civilized, and too successful in the real world IMO. Live poker is for degen misfit gamblers who for one reason or another just can't make it 9 to 5- it is not for doctors!

Please take ^^^ as a compliment, that's what it was intended to be.

Peace (and run good)
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