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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old Today, 01:56 AM   #5776
TheTyman9
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
yup and fortunately live poker isn't online poker and i can be 4 years behind the curve and make way more money than people ahead of me on that curve with zero personality, who aren't fun to play with for donks, who can't handle losing streaks that can take a really long time in live poker etc.And guess what- 5 years from now if I'm still playing poker I'll make more money than people who are fundamentally better than me who don't "get" live poker at all. Not more than all of course- some are just pure crushers playing bigger games and good for them.

would a lot of these players have higher win rates than me online if we played the same online games? yes of course. would they maybe be winners in some online games i would be a loser in? yes of course. and you know what- who cares.
You're missing the point. The point is that you could be making even more money if you improved at how to play the game. You can improve your edge while still doing the same things you feel make you good at live poker. They aren't mutually exclusive. I fully understand the desire to not spend what would end up being a ton of time studying in favor of spending that time playing and printing a solid hourly while there are still fish around though.
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Old Today, 03:29 AM   #5777
gman06
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by surf doc View Post
I assume you could be both ahead of the curve and good for the game although I expect part of looking like a donk is actually being one at times. Maybe Gman can weigh in. I will agree with you on one point though. If I had limited amount of time and I had to chose between working to find good games and using solvers to try and beat bad ones, I would snap choose the former.

As far as where dgaf plays all I can say is you guys have poor deductive reasoning skills.
Everyone has their preferred mindset (that lead to specific actions or inaction altogether). I choose to always assume I donít know s***, that there are others much smarter than myself, and that I can learn quite a lot from them.

I also choose to believe that in poker and in life there are a minority of people willing to give everything to a specific skill/occupation/hobby/etc, and if it is a goal of mine to compete against those at an elite level, I have to be willing to work even harder than they do. Iíve never believed Iím intellectually superior to elite level poker players, but I do take a lot of pride in having a sickening work ethic in the few things Iíve focused on in life.

I wish I could say that I donít study poker, that I just play and play and figure out how to win like I did in the early 2000s. But alas, the game has evolved to a level where that just doesnít work when you play in the biggest and sometimes toughest live games in the country if not the world.

I donít want to get into how I study or the merits of GTO play in live poker. Needless to say, the better the competition, the more relevant it becomes. But the blending of old school live exploits vs (attempting to roughly approximate) new school GTO play is a beautiful and incredibly complex task, one that has reinvigorated my interest in poker in recent months.

With all that said, if you always run incredibly hot as I do, things are probably going to work out no matter which school you subscribe to. My greatest attribute as a poker player has always been to consistently run in the 1%.
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Old Today, 05:12 AM   #5778
OolongKing
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

imo, apology tyman surf doc and gman's recent posts are dead on. I don't disagree with borg either, I just question why not study to get stronger fundamentals?

I have enough data to know that full ring live 2/5 can be demolished. I'm pretty damn sure the same is true at 5/T+ but my data doesn't prove it because my buyins range drastically, the game is often straddled and often SH and I don't differentiate that in my tracking.

Even playing deep, preflop needs to be relatively well thought out and you have to play a lot of hands against decent players these days. I don't mean at all to imply that GTO/strong technical play trumps all the "soft' live poker skills like massive exploitive adjustments, sociability, playing 20+ hour sessions when required, stoic mental state, live reads, etc. It doesn't.

I'd love to hear thoughts on variance/winrates in Live PLO and MTT's (like DGAF I know smart people who play them but haven't wrapped my head around it) And I'm concerned with the emergent prevalence of large live staking rings and the migration of high stakes games to private that could easily trickle down through the midstakes
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Old Today, 04:41 PM   #5779
Sean Snyder
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by 8o8 View Post
what's logistically complicated about an ante paid by one player? also do antes paid by everyone really slow the game down much in practice?
Nothing. People in smaller stakes games still dont like it typically. I'd never bother trying to get an ante going in a game smaller than $50 blind. That said most games I'm in these days are great and nothing is really required to make the game more fun/actiony

DGAF and I will forever disagree about why straddles are good but not that they almost always are good.

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Originally Posted by sevencard2003 View Post
u know how u keep the variance from not finishing off the guys who arent insanely rich? u decrease the minimum buyin. theres nothing more annoying than a dick sitting down at your table who not only wants to straddle but to push everyone else into doing it too. its bad for poker
Agree 100% on lower minimum buyins. I love short stackers. They are almost always action themselves, and in pot limit games especially, they help bloat pots to the moon.

Pros aggressively trying to get the table to straddle is one of my biggest pet peeves. Everyone has their sweet spot for what they want to play. If someone is in a 2/5 game with $275 in front of them, they probably don't want to play 5/10. If I'm playing 10/20 with a pro that has 5k in front of them and is bullying everyone to put 40, all I can think about is how great it would be to get thr straddle to 40/80/160/320 so that he can be the uncomfortable one.

I almost never ask anyone to straddle. I just put it out when I'm bored or if the lineup looks right and hope it continues. "Round of straddles" is also one of my least favorite things. You arent asking for one round. You're asking to kick it up. Just say what you want.

I do recall one session of 5/10/20 pot limit where I was very drunk and pretty rude to a very nitty guy who was very slow about putting out his straddle. Felt guilty when I woke up the next day. That said, while I'm not an "I deserved it" guy when it comes to good things happening, but I turned an ok 2/3 game into a top 5 of 2018 5/10/20 game by being a belligerent chip spraying mess, so I deserved it that time and I wasnt letting someone ruin it

Quote:
Originally Posted by sevencard2003 View Post
the problem with shorthanded games is the "bad" players suddenly become very difficult to beat. why? because bad players main mistake is calling too much. and in shorthanded games it benefits them and i get hurt for folding too much. still however, id rather play with 6 or 7 than with 10, simply so im not bored and so the game has better action.
This is objectively wrong. See: online hu vs 6max vs 9max winrates of top players
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Old Today, 04:49 PM   #5780
pewpewrobot
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by gman06 View Post
Everyone has their preferred mindset (that lead to specific actions or inaction altogether).
This 100%. There's a lot of discussion on whether behavior is good or bad, and we often talk past each other because people look at things from completely different perspectives
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Old Today, 04:58 PM   #5781
Sean Snyder
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Forgot the whole reason I opened this thread while at the casino. The most brazen angle anyone has attempted to shoot against me in a very very long time.

I sit in a 2/3 NL game (my first mistake) while waiting for pot limit.

Fold every hand for 30 min. Very tight player opens 20 (sure), I 3b bb to 65 with AA, he looks like he wants to 4b and then just calls and the pot is 130 just like every 3bet pot in a 2/3 game should be. 300ish effective

954r
Cbet 40, he makes it 145, I tank the appropriate amount of time and say all in. The dealer does a great job and immediately places the brightly colored all in disc in front of me. I slide out an extra 105 so I have 145 out there. Villain thinks a while, says exactly 1 word "call" and I flip my hand up and turn around to tip the waitress that has brought my food.

I turn back around to him saying "did he call?" pretending he thinks I just called. The dealer looks terrified because he could not have more clearly said call. I'm not super friendly with the guy but have known him for years and basically say "you're kidding right?". Floor gets called. Dealer says what happened and how he heard it. I say what I heard. Then basically everyone at the table 1 by 1 says "I dont want to get in the middle of it, but all I heard was 'call'"

Anyway floor makes the very obvious correct ruling, somehow I dont get 2 outted and I win.

I kinda think he took the shot because he figured it was such a small amount of money to me. The funny thing is that I would actually let this slide against certain people in a bigger game but ain't nobody in a $3 holdem game getting one over on me

Last edited by Sean Snyder; Today at 05:11 PM.
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Old Today, 05:36 PM   #5782
pewpewrobot
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by OolongKing View Post
I'd love to hear thoughts on variance/winrates in Live PLO and MTT's (like DGAF I know smart people who play them but haven't wrapped my head around it) And I'm concerned with the emergent prevalence of large live staking rings and the migration of high stakes games to private that could easily trickle down through the midstakes
There's a large one in Maryland that the Washington post ran an article on. There are some collusion concerns, but otherwise staked pros would just be independent pros (no net effect). So it's mostly a way of providing people with financial stability and some coaching. When the article first popped, I overheard a lot of discussion at the tables about how people hated playing against pros, etc, etc, so knowing that there are financially backed pros at the table could be a turnoff to some rec players.

Casinos are recruiting grounds for private games. Bad players play at the casino, then get invited to private games from there. I've seen it happen a few times, however, I don't really know the numbers for how often it happens or how big of a problem it is. Alternatively private games help the casino because the casino is open all the time, while private games might not be.
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