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Old 02-16-2012, 05:27 PM   #26
rakes
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by chilidog0425 View Post
dgaf-
at the table last night, someone randomly brought up that classic slow-roll hand when you got in like 350 BBs by the flop with a straight flush draw vs. top set. (i didn't remember this guy at my game last night being at the table for that session, so it caught me by surprise that he was telling the story. plus we were playing at a different card room !)


------
flash back: nov 2010. villian and dgaf get about $300 in preflop with some notable bad blood between the two. the villian was / is a tweaker and can certainly be a scum bag and bad for the game (one of dgaf's pet peeves). flop was bet/raise/3b/4b shove/call for 300 BBs or so.

turn : brings flush.
river : pairs the board. villian fist pump yells "Yes!!" while standing up and knocking his chair over. he physically reaches into the middle of the table to scoop the chips for himself as he shows Kings full. DGAF sits quietly watching in seat 9. after about 7-8 seconds of celebration and raking in chips, DGAF says (with cards still marked), "ummmm......what are you DOING?" then proceeds to show the villian the bad news that he was drawing dead (to a jackpot) on the turn.

oooohhhhhhs and aaaaahhhhhhs from the gallery as the villian was stunned into silence and slinked away into the night / morning.

----------------
anyway, remembering that hand last night reminded me that there is more to this game than winning the chips. though i remember running like death with you in the game, it was still entertaining and fun.

btw- it seems that i keep hearing a similar story of how pros / semi-pros had their worst year ever in 2011 -- and that includes me. so don't think you are special !
A+ story

dgaf, is boredatheist a troll or simply too brilliant for people?
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:14 PM   #27
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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A+ story

dgaf, is boredatheist a troll or simply too brilliant for people?
He's both?

---

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I was expecting more questions than compliments (poker players are information miners), but I'll take it. And yes, I love to slow roll...
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Old 02-16-2012, 07:18 PM   #28
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

When 2+2 first got rolling I used to post some, but got out of the habit and I'm not even sure what my old "handle" was. JLOC's successful attempt to resuscitate MHFR more or less co-incided with DFAF's joining in (at least as I remember it). I'm sure I've responded more to DGAF threads than any other OP in the past couple of years, and it was always an interesting discussion (and a learning exercise for me).

DGAF says "I’ve always looked at threads as thinking exercises, rather than reference points for future spots.". I definitely agree with that and I'm sorry we are losing a great source of those exercises.

GL DGAF - sorry we missed each other at CAZ, but hopefully I'll get a chance for some in-person instruction in SLAG play at some point.
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Old 02-17-2012, 12:15 AM   #29
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I definitely think we have very similar outlooks on how to approach the game from a non strategy point of view.

Meaning, I'm more of a 100-150BB tag, and less of a degen.

But honestly, other than that, we have a similar attitude.

Questions:

Do the young regs who wear sunglasses, hoodies, Beats by Dre, and are intentionally anti-social tilt you as much as they do me? (Do people realize how much they're overpaying for a pretty average headphone, that lacks a true dynamic range, while they listen to ****ty MP3's anyway?)

How do you game select in more exact terms? I've noticed a vast difference between myself and my solid winning poker player friends and what games are good. I agree with you on the profitability of playing short handed in general and understand that it depends on your style, obviously but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:53 AM   #30
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Questions. What I'm asking for is your evaluation process in these situations. What are the key characteristics you looking for to line up before you pull the trigger?

(1) Opponent is preflop raiser. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise(you have less than top pair, less than inside straight draw with overcard) or checkraise the flop headup.
(2) If you bluff raise/check raise the flop, when do you follow through on 4th headup? If called on 4th when do you follow through on the river?
(3) Opponent is preflop aggressor and bet the flop. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise or checkraise headup on 4th? If called on 4th, when do you follow through on the river?
(4) Opponent is preflop aggressor and has bet the flop and 4th. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise or checkraise headup on the river?
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:09 AM   #31
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by WorldBoFree View Post
I definitely think we have very similar outlooks on how to approach the game from a non strategy point of view.

Meaning, I'm more of a 100-150BB tag, and less of a degen.

But honestly, other than that, we have a similar attitude.

Questions:

Do the young regs who wear sunglasses, hoodies, Beats by Dre, and are intentionally anti-social tilt you as much as they do me? (Do people realize how much they're overpaying for a pretty average headphone, that lacks a true dynamic range, while they listen to ****ty MP3's anyway?)

How do you game select in more exact terms? I've noticed a vast difference between myself and my solid winning poker player friends and what games are good. I agree with you on the profitability of playing short handed in general and understand that it depends on your style, obviously but I'd like to hear your thoughts.
I agree we have similar outlooks, always trying to keep the vibe up at the table and not taking ourselves or the game too seriously. There is A LOT more to life than poker, and so much of the winning and losing in any given session is a result of variance- which really owns us all. I could tell you "got it" right away, and I like playing with you (even though you are as solid as they come and one of the best LA regs I've played with) because of your strong sense of humor.

Lol @ the beats bit. I was given the earphones for Christmas (the ones that go in your ear) and while I like the bass, I agree they are overrated. I only use them when the table is super annoying or I'm on massive tilt and need to regroup or I'm "on one" and feel like hearing some music lol. I usually go one ear only though as to not be anti-social or slow the game down or kill the vibe entirely.

The anti-social kids who dress like slobs and go with the giant beats used to tilt me like crazy. They certainly do not do their part wrt entertaining the recreational players/preserving action and good games. And most of them are just on massive heaters and have no idea what's in store for them when the deck cools off in a month or a year or whatever--> their smugness is almost laughable as they turn over nf vs 2nf like "damn this game is easy!"

They don't tilt me too much anymore though, as with games deteriorating so much and the "gypsies" playing smaller or what have you, a lot of these kids have become the fish, playing 300 bb stacks like it's 100 bbs.

Note: I believe kwansolo wears the big headphones and he's James dean cool, so there are obv exceptions.

I never used to game select until a) limon and Bart opened my eyes to it in one of those podcasts, and b) I went through an amazing icey stretch/downswing which pretty much showed me the light for good. I like to play in games where I can see a ton of flops without getting 3-bet or squeezed too often. The greater the volume of flops seen for cheap, the more often I can apply my deepstack post-flop edge, the more opportunities I have to win. It's really just increasing my sample in that respect. I also like playing with old guys in general because I have more fe with them and if I show them a bluff they will often play horrendous against me/out of their comfort zone the rest of the session. In general, 5-10 seems like the most profitable, non risk of ruin level in this current economy. Games where people are limp/calling and playing oop in general are the nuts IMO...
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:17 AM   #32
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

What are your thoughts on making an -EV play in order to have other players want to gamble with you and give you action in the future? For instance something like calling a preflop allin with 87 suited and showing your opponent and telling them you want to gamble with them. Is doing things like this ever worth it in the long run against certain players?
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:59 AM   #33
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarganaga View Post
Questions. What I'm asking for is your evaluation process in these situations. What are the key characteristics you looking for to line up before you pull the trigger?

(1) Opponent is preflop raiser. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise(you have less than top pair, less than inside straight draw with overcard) or checkraise the flop headup.
(2) If you bluff raise/check raise the flop, when do you follow through on 4th headup? If called on 4th when do you follow through on the river?
(3) Opponent is preflop aggressor and bet the flop. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise or checkraise headup on 4th? If called on 4th, when do you follow through on the river?
(4) Opponent is preflop aggressor and has bet the flop and 4th. Under what circumstances are you most likely to bluff raise or checkraise headup on the river?
I played a really long session last night and didn't sleep too much so my brain isn't working well enough to answer these questions specifically, but I will give you my general bluffing thoughts.

I bluff most vs people who don't know me. I recognize bet/fold spots very well and when someone (who doesn't know I'm a blufftard) bets in one of them, I almost always pounce regardless of my holding. In general though, I like to have some equity when I bluff, like bottom pair or gutshot or whatever. I also bluff relentlessly when I'm running good (people get afraid of my heater). Preflop I love to have an A in my hand.

Regarding streets, if we are deep, I will often bluff flop small for value and then send in the grenades on the turn. Or I will one time it big on the flop. If stacks are normal, the turn bluff seems to have the most fe, and I love putting people in spots where they have to either go all in or fold due to awkward stack sizes (see this discussion in sknights's 3-barrel thread). This is just incredibly profitable no matter what they do.

I rarely bluff rivers (people never fold), but I will if I think someone is good/not a station. I will also bluff amazing scare cards. Lastly, I will send in small value bet looking bluffs on the river if I have air and I want to fold out a missed draw that likely has me beat (fml I'm in this situation too much!).

Last thing on bluffing, it's really all about what you are repping and what they are repping. If you can have it based on board texture and they cannot, you deserve to win IMO. Image is obv very important as well, and if I had your image (sarganaga's) I'd be stealing at least one big bloated pot a day .

***Oh yeah, no1 likes to go broke in a limped pot, so I like bluffing the hell out of those.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:13 AM   #34
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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What are your thoughts on making an -EV play in order to have other players want to gamble with you and give you action in the future? For instance something like calling a preflop allin with 87 suited and showing your opponent and telling them you want to gamble with them. Is doing things like this ever worth it in the long run against certain players?
I think gambling like that is good for the game and fish will give you endless action if they think you have some gamble. But I'd rather ship that hand pre with no fe than call it off. That will pay better dividends for sure.

In general though, yeah, doing -ev or zero ev stuff short term can be extremely profitable long term. Doing a jeager bomb at the table with the fish (or by yourself) is prob gonna make you a little spewy for a while. But it's also going to get implanted in the back of everyone's mind, and you will get called down super light long after that buzz wears off. And flipping with a stuck fish is neutral obv, but you are doing him a favor and one way or another it will usually benefit you down the road.
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Old 02-17-2012, 06:33 AM   #35
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

scenario 1:

two mega fish who are clearly friends (and don't try to hide it) are sitting in your game. they spew between 100-500bbs a night easy. they speak to each other softly after hands in a foreign language, but just real quick so as not to draw the ire of dealers / players, go on smoke breaks together, etc. you notice they sometimes squeeze people out of pots, and it happens to you: f1 limps, you raise, f2 calls, f1 calls. f1 donks flop, you raise, f2 calls, f1 re-raises. you fold, f2 folds. hard to tell if they are sophisticated enough to know what they are doing, but the pattern occurs enough that it seems like they are actually colluding (but still have trouble winning). what do you do?

scenario 2:

you are playing a typical lag session, but nothing is really going your way. even the fish are making plays on you because your image is shot. you tighten up, but still are getting played back a bit, and really having trouble getting traction. game is still very good though. what factors do you consider for grinding on, or packing it up to fight another day? table change > going home?
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:14 AM   #36
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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scenario 1:

two mega fish who are clearly friends (and don't try to hide it) are sitting in your game. they spew between 100-500bbs a night easy. they speak to each other softly after hands in a foreign language, but just real quick so as not to draw the ire of dealers / players, go on smoke breaks together, etc. you notice they sometimes squeeze people out of pots, and it happens to you: f1 limps, you raise, f2 calls, f1 calls. f1 donks flop, you raise, f2 calls, f1 re-raises. you fold, f2 folds. hard to tell if they are sophisticated enough to know what they are doing, but the pattern occurs enough that it seems like they are actually colluding (but still have trouble winning). what do you do?

scenario 2:

you are playing a typical lag session, but nothing is really going your way. even the fish are making plays on you because your image is shot. you tighten up, but still are getting played back a bit, and really having trouble getting traction. game is still very good though. what factors do you consider for grinding on, or packing it up to fight another day? table change > going home?
1. I would let them know that you know. Gotta nip that **** in the bud. Soft collusion is fine in many occasions IMO, but this is not. This happened to me a few times last night and I said something like, "something really weird just happened in that hand" after the second time, and they didn't do it again and left soon after.

I like to play with friends at the table as much as possible because I like their company. Any time something looks like collusion (it never is) I make a point to show my hand, just to keep people at ease.

2. The correct answer is to pick up and take a long break or come back the next day. Your competitive nature will **** with you though and make it very difficult to quit. This is by far my biggest leak tbh and the reason why 500-1000 bb losses plague my otherwise beautiful spreadsheet. The richest (not necessarily the best) poker players I know quit the moment they know it's "not their day."

Even though it's often just on subconscious level, people (even fish) will go after you with their A+ game if they sense blood in the water. People are also a lot easier to read when they are buried, sad, stressed, etc, and they end up reinventing the wheel and taking bad lines because nothing they are doing seems to work.

Thx kwansolo- I think I'll use this discussion as the catalyst for setting a 500 bb stop loss for myself once and for all. Tags might want to go lower obv.

Hope you are running well.
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Old 02-17-2012, 01:38 PM   #37
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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This happened to me a few times last night and I said something like, "something really weird just happened in that hand" after the second time, and they didn't do it again and left soon after.
this didn't happen to be at the bike, did it?

i struggled with this one, because i (and most rational regs) are willing to let fish get away with a lot of stuff, but where do we draw the line? if i were making a straight up equity assessment, they were still losing more money than they were making by doing this, and you could of course potentially stack them both in a bloated pot when you have the nuts (they were really bad). in the end i didn't say anything, but sometimes i guess there is more to poker than just the money, and we have a responsibility to protect the game.

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2. The correct answer is to pick up and take a long break or come back the next day. Your competitive nature will **** with you though and make it very difficult to quit. This is by far my biggest leak tbh and the reason why 500-1000 bb losses plague my otherwise beautiful spreadsheet. The richest (not necessarily the best) poker players I know quit the moment they know it's "not their day."

...

Thx kwansolo- I think I'll use this discussion as the catalyst for setting a 500 bb stop loss for myself once and for all. Tags might want to go lower obv.

i have the same problem, believe it or not, because i do have a lag streak in me. if i wasn't such a mental game fish, i think my graph would just go straight up. there are also the secondary effects of having a massive and lonnng losing session, and how it messes with your game for days / weeks, and triggers a downswing. discretion is the better part of valor.

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Hope you are running well.
you too, man
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Old 02-17-2012, 03:04 PM   #38
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How often do you have days where your brain just feels cloudy and you aren't sharp? I'm trying to work on always staying a street (or level) ahead of the good opponents, but it seems some days no matter what i'm not able to. Tell me this is somewhat normal. I think this is different from motivational issues and more a physiological problem.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:08 PM   #39
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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this didn't happen to be at the bike, did it?

i struggled with this one, because i (and most rational regs) are willing to let fish get away with a lot of stuff, but where do we draw the line? if i were making a straight up equity assessment, they were still losing more money than they were making by doing this, and you could of course potentially stack them both in a bloated pot when you have the nuts (they were really bad). in the end i didn't say anything, but sometimes i guess there is more to poker than just the money, and we have a responsibility to protect the game.




i have the same problem, believe it or not, because i do have a lag streak in me. if i wasn't such a mental game fish, i think my graph would just go straight up. there are also the secondary effects of having a massive and lonnng losing session, and how it messes with your game for days / weeks, and triggers a downswing. discretion is the better part of valor.



you too, man
It wasn't at the bike. And I think the line needs to be drawn at working together in pots. Checking down once hu, buying in short or over the max, sending chips back and forth in between hands, etc, is all fine with me.
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Old 02-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #40
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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How often do you have days where your brain just feels cloudy and you aren't sharp? I'm trying to work on always staying a street (or level) ahead of the good opponents, but it seems some days no matter what i'm not able to. Tell me this is somewhat normal. I think this is different from motivational issues and more a physiological problem.
I have those moments often, and almost always at the beginning of a session. I used to have them less/rarely, but I think after like 10k hours or whatever at pretty much the same stakes, you have to really fight boredom, getting distracted etc. The goal is to be as lucid as possible while playing, and I've tried almost everything. I can't decide if working out before or after playing is better, caffeine or no caffeine, etc. If I ever figure it out, I'll let you know. Obv a lot of people use aderrall...
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:06 PM   #41
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Read every word ITT. Great read. I wish you the best, DGAF. If online ever gets regulated, resist the temptation and stick to playing live, please. The last thing we need is another thinking SLAG/LAG.

Btw, you've inspired me to start posting in strat threads more often. Not only to give back but to improve my game as well.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:20 PM   #42
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

cool thread again.

1) seeing opponents' hole cards. unethical or their live leaks? Assume they have no disabilities.

2) How much to tip? Why do you tip the amount you choose to. How about donkaments?

3) You are sitting in the 5 seat and seats 4 and 6 are open. A reg is about to move to your table. He's okay but not amazing. Do you move to either seat or stay put?

4) Thoughts on live tells? I have yet to spot really anything beyond general strength/weakness. I can't tell when someone is bluffing or hold the nuts.
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:20 PM   #43
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

So Cal or Vegas poker for the next three mths.

The only game I'm rolled for is 2/5 or 5/5 without backing. I'm finding i hard to find a game in LA that is 100 BB deep is Hollywood park. And that place makes me nervous, walking out with winnings.

Not that nervous though because I'm going there once traffic dies down
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:43 PM   #44
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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It wasn't at the bike. And I think the line needs to be drawn at working together in pots. Checking down once hu, buying in short or over the max, sending chips back and forth in between hands, etc, is all fine with me.
All the things DGAF talks about above, like agreeing to check it down, "pushkas" (sending chips back and forth), softplaying between friends in HU pots, etc. are common live, and I never complain. Active collusion is something else - some may remember a hand I posted in MHFR involving my calling a straddle, then re-raising straddler's raise the second time around with JJ. Two of the Vs in that game were actively colluding, both pushing people out and "two teaming" the initial raiser hoping one of the two partners hit the flop (presumably with signals involved). After I cashed out I pulled one of the hosts aside and asked whether he knew what was going on. He said, "well we've wondered about them but overall they seem to be losing money". Except the games I saw they were killing some of the less observant opponents. Not sure what was done but they have not been back as far as I know.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:36 AM   #45
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Thanks for your take on the general bluffing thought process. It was more of the answer that I wanted than more specific answers to my questions would have been.

As for the your following observation, this seems to be the primary reason I manage to win from time to time. When you get older, you don't make as many hands. FYI, straight making ability is the first thing to go.

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. Image is obv very important as well, and if I had your image (sarganaga's) I'd be stealing at least one big bloated pot a day .
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Old 02-18-2012, 02:26 AM   #46
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Read every word ITT. Great read. I wish you the best, DGAF. If online ever gets regulated, resist the temptation and stick to playing live, please. The last thing we need is another thinking SLAG/LAG.

Btw, you've inspired me to start posting in strat threads more often. Not only to give back but to improve my game as well.
Gl to you too. I look forward to lurking your strat posts. I think people are missing out if they don't pay close attention to what the smart, technical, internet guys are saying in live threads.
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:31 AM   #47
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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cool thread again.

1) seeing opponents' hole cards. unethical or their live leaks? Assume they have no disabilities.

2) How much to tip? Why do you tip the amount you choose to. How about donkaments?

3) You are sitting in the 5 seat and seats 4 and 6 are open. A reg is about to move to your table. He's okay but not amazing. Do you move to either seat or stay put?

4) Thoughts on live tells? I have yet to spot really anything beyond general strength/weakness. I can't tell when someone is bluffing or hold the nuts.
1. Seeking out opponents hole cards seems unethical. Using the info they are putting right in your face doesn't. Either way, I don't want to see them. Life is too short, my vision is too poor lol, and somehow my mom managed to instill a super strong guilty conscious in me growing up- damn her.

Live poker can be really scummy and pros should be held to the highest standard IMO. There is always going to be temptation to do small things that may or may not be crossing the line. The other day I was buried, could not turn over the best hand for hours in a soft, short-handed game, and had some verbal sparring history with my opponent in a hand. I had KQ and the flop was Q73. We were deep and my image was perfect for over playing my hand. He was pfr with a wideish range and I donked into him for 1.5 pot. He called with what I was sure was a worse hand (live soul read lol). The turn was an A and I 2x'd pot, trying to look as bluffy as possible and only really losing to A7 or A3 (which I thought were pretty unlikely). He called. River was another 3 and I bombed again. He snapped, I showed my hand, he turned over a Q and mucked. He then quickly realized he had folded a chop and started pleading with me to chop the pot. For a second, I was almost like "Fu, learn to read the board", but then thought better of it and chopped the pot. That's the kind of stuff pros should do IMO (even though the rules say I get the pot) against fish for sure, and even against other pros. You don't want to ever start down that scummy path/you want to be a good ambassador for the game at all times.

Note: I know this question came from the limon thread. I know limon irl and he is a real pro. I believe that part of his masterpiece 2000 was misconstrued/over analyzed (sometimes haters just need something to hate on). Or maybe like the rest of us, he isn't perfect, idk. To me, he is clear cut 2p2 GOAT wrt live poker though, and his insights and his generosity with information had a HUGE influence on my development/willingness to post.

2. I tip 1-5 dollars per hand as long as there is a flop. If I win a bunch of hands in a row pre when I'm in Spewperman mode, I'll tip a buck there as well. My default is one dollar, more for better performance/personality. I don't think dealers should be involved in the table talk, but how they respond to stuff (especially with the fish) is important to me. I tip more than a buck if a hand takes a long time, and there is obv a social pressure to tip more in big pots (which is pretty silly in theory).

If a fish demands I tip more, I tip more. If a fish demands no1 tip the dealer for the rest of the down because the dealer got out of line, I'm firing air balls. The fish run the show.

3. If he's tight, he gets the seat on my left. If he's loose, he gets the seat on my right. Doesn't matter if he's good or not.

4. I have a list of live tells, but I'm saving them for a possible book . I will give you one pretty reliable one though. If someone is all in and while you are tanking, they take a sip of their drink- they ****ing have it (unless of course they are leveling).
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:36 AM   #48
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by bdsinc View Post
So Cal or Vegas poker for the next three mths.

The only game I'm rolled for is 2/5 or 5/5 without backing. I'm finding i hard to find a game in LA that is 100 BB deep is Hollywood park. And that place makes me nervous, walking out with winnings.

Not that nervous though because I'm going there once traffic dies down
If you can move to Vegas, do it. The 2 5 games there are generally very soft (if you look for a good game) and the rake is way lower than la. If you are stuck in la, try the 300 at Hg. It can be pretty amazing.

Note: I won't publicly discuss venues for 5-10+ for obv reasons.
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Old 02-18-2012, 03:44 AM   #49
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Thanks for your take on the general bluffing thought process. It was more of the answer that I wanted than more specific answers to my questions would have been.

As for the your following observation, this seems to be the primary reason I manage to win from time to time. When you get older, you don't make as many hands. FYI, straight making ability is the first thing to go.
I never thought you were very good at making hands.
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Old 02-18-2012, 12:55 PM   #50
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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4. I have a list of live tells, but I'm saving them for a possible book . I will give you one pretty reliable one though. If someone is all in and while you are tanking, they take a sip of their drink- they ****ing have it (unless of course they are leveling).
I've been studying this tell for ~2 yrs now (I call it "take a drink") so I'm glad you mentioned it.

Tho I'm still not sold on it. Last night some guy did it twice(to 2 different players) and once he had it/other time was on a draw. IMO the tell actually means "I'm comfortable". Good players are comfortable with the good hands and bad players are comfortable drawing. My default tho is they think they're ahead.
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