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Old 08-10-2018, 07:29 AM   #4876
miamicheats
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

There is a newer pro (maybe 2 years on the scene) that reminds me so much of this thread.

He was crushing it for months, hitting every gutter, flush draw, bluffs getting through, heroes being right, etc. He is a thinking player but also mashed a ton of buttons and to many appeared to be really good. Now he is downswinging hard and every one of those plays is resulting in a loss. I hear other players whispering about how he isnít good etc.

To the best of my knowledge he was playing 100% on his own dime. Now Iím fairly certain he is either getting staked or will need on shortly.

Variance (in both directions) is a cruel mistress. It can fool someone into thinking they have a greater edge than they actually do and obviously be soul crushing when on the other side.


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Old 08-10-2018, 01:02 PM   #4877
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I appreciate this thread. I’ve been flirting with the idea of quitting my job to go back to poker full time. The job is hard and low paying. I work with special needs kids to improve behavior and their quality of life. I don’t make anywhere near 55k, but my cost of living in rural Massachusetts is way lower than LA. Thanks for always being a reminder of how abysmal being a poker pro can be.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:23 PM   #4878
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by miamicheats View Post
He was crushing it for months, hitting every gutter, flush draw, bluffs getting through, heroes being right, etc. He is a thinking player but also mashed a ton of buttons and to many appeared to be really good. Now he is downswinging hard and every one of those plays is resulting in a loss. I hear other players whispering about how he isn’t good etc.

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people love to be results oriented/often contradict themselves when describing what a "good player" is.

example) "man this player is so aggressive; hes good and tough to play against", but when that same player is getting called down/running into big hands it becomes "man that guy is massive spew"

i guess as you move up in stakes it becomes more mathematical/solver based.

also, doctor money is not $100k. $150k would be the very low end of most doctors with an MD. most doctors are making 250k+ and have various perks such as insurance. you also have job security and (mostly) guaranteed income. software engineers in the silicon valley (yes i get the silicon valley is insanely expensive) are making upwards of $300-500k/year (some even more) when you factor in salary+stock+bonuses. add in unlimited vacation time, free lunch/dinners, insurance/401k etc.

im not saying 100k isnt a lot of money. but 100k income is attainable by like the top 0.5% of your player pool in your casino (if that). and you are constantly thinking about what your games will look like in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years. and what you will be doing in 20 years when you have a family.

poker as a FT job seems really awful. poker as a part-time job is the nuts.

Last edited by jc315; 08-10-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:39 PM   #4879
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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A) When you talk about investing your profit after 5 years you are not talking about playing poker as a career; you are talking about playing poker as a job while you are young and then hitting and running it into investing.

B) I specifically said, "I think playing poker as a career is a disaster."

C) My results are all but irrelevant for 2 pretty obvious reasons (1. games are way tougher these days 2. I'm sorry, I may have done too good of job downplaying- I'm not your average pro).

D) Please site some examples of people who played 35 years full time and made it out alive?

E) Everything else itt

You're right that people who grind for 35 years are going to be miserable.I see these cautionary tales in the poker rooms I play.Nobody should aspire to grind poker for 35 years.

But that's bc they were stupid with their money.Making good money from poker, saving it and investing it wisely is the right play.

There are people with very good jobs who work for 40 years, finally retire at 65 and have a few years to enjoy the money before they croak. And then there are people who have really good jobs,invest wisely and retire at 40.

The differences is with poker- it's really easy to piss through the money when a lot comes in a short amount of time if you aren't disciplined. It's also easy to travel for poker spending a lot of money, but winning a lot so you think it was money well spent when really you basically spent all of your ev on hotels flights etc. To top it off there is a ton of temptation when you're in casinos all of the time. It takes the right personality to fade all of this but still do well in poker.

There are without a doubt some 5/10 grinders this year who will make 150k-200k this year. They're good and they're running like god. And most of them will piss away most of that money thinking it's sustainable when it isn't.That's the beginning of being a cautionary tale in 35 years.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:44 PM   #4880
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by miamicheats View Post
There is a newer pro (maybe 2 years on the scene) that reminds me so much of this thread.

He was crushing it for months, hitting every gutter, flush draw, bluffs getting through, heroes being right, etc. He is a thinking player but also mashed a ton of buttons and to many appeared to be really good. Now he is downswinging hard and every one of those plays is resulting in a loss. I hear other players whispering about how he isn’t good etc.

To the best of my knowledge he was playing 100% on his own dime. Now I’m fairly certain he is either getting staked or will need on shortly.

Variance (in both directions) is a cruel mistress. It can fool someone into thinking they have a greater edge than they actually do and obviously be soul crushing when on the other side.


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i've seen plenty of these people.
there was one two years ago in my plo pool. i maintained he is absolutely ****ing terrible but he was crushing it.other players i talked to told me he was good. i laughed. he was flopping top boat 5 times a night, winning every race in hands that played themselves (ie top set vs wrap flush draw) winning every 80/20, hitting 1-2 outers himself 3-5 times a month etc.He ran good in every possible way you could run good including just getting smashed with the deck in the right games.He without a doubt made more money than anyone in this pool 2 years ago.

Back then he was buying in for the max in whatever game we played.
Last year he got decimated, and now he's a min buyer who plays like a wounded dog.

Most people just saw how much he was winning and thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I saw HOW he was winning, how he was playing and how well he was running and knew the entire thing was a mirage.
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Old 08-10-2018, 02:46 PM   #4881
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
people love to be results oriented/often contradict themselves when describing what a "good player" is.

example) "man this player is so aggressive; hes good and tough to play against", but when that same player is getting called down/running into big hands it becomes "man that guy is massive spew"

i guess as you move up in stakes it becomes more mathematical/solver based.

also, doctor money is not $100k. $150k would be the very low end of most doctors with an MD. most doctors are making 250k+ and have various perks such as insurance. you also have job security and (mostly) guaranteed income. software engineers in the silicon valley (yes i get the silicon valley is insanely expensive) are making upwards of $300-500k/year (some even more) when you factor in salary+stock+bonuses. add in unlimited vacation time, free lunch/dinners, insurance/401k etc.

im not saying 100k isnt a lot of money. but 100k income is attainable by like the top 0.5% of your player pool in your casino (if that). and you are constantly thinking about what your games will look like in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years. and what you will be doing in 20 years when you have a family.

poker as a FT job seems really awful. poker as a part-time job is the nuts.
exactly, this is why you save and invest well.
just like i say how well you play fundamentally means so much less than your mental game handling swings etc (once you're at least halfway decent), how good you are with money matters a lot more than what you actually make.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:03 PM   #4882
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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D) Please site some examples of people who played 35 years full time and made it out alive?
Hypothetically, there are people who could play 35 years full-time and do fine, but if they are smart with their money and save up, they can create investment opportunities, start a business, and/or just start playing less hours after 5-10 years.

That's basically my plan - save up a nice amount of money, start a business or make some investments, and still play professionally - but way less hours, mostly tournaments and just the occasional cash game.

So really you have D) being attacked from both sides - a lot of people aren't good enough, aren't good enough with their money, aren't disciplined enough, etc, and then a lot of the ones who are will also be looking for an exit.

Also, a lot of times when people relocate the locals there think they went broke or quit, so you're also looking for people who played 35 years full-time and succeeded without relocating.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:42 PM   #4883
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
You're right that people who grind for 35 years are going to be miserable.I see these cautionary tales in the poker rooms I play.Nobody should aspire to grind poker for 35 years.

But that's bc they were stupid with their money.Making good money from poker, saving it and investing it wisely is the right play.

There are people with very good jobs who work for 40 years, finally retire at 65 and have a few years to enjoy the money before they croak. And then there are people who have really good jobs,invest wisely and retire at 40.

The differences is with poker- it's really easy to piss through the money when a lot comes in a short amount of time if you aren't disciplined. It's also easy to travel for poker spending a lot of money, but winning a lot so you think it was money well spent when really you basically spent all of your ev on hotels flights etc. To top it off there is a ton of temptation when you're in casinos all of the time. It takes the right personality to fade all of this but still do well in poker.

There are without a doubt some 5/10 grinders this year who will make 150k-200k this year. They're good and they're running like god. And most of them will piss away most of that money thinking it's sustainable when it isn't.That's the beginning of being a cautionary tale in 35 years.
This was what I was getting at. I don't know a lot of the long time 5/10 pros regularly, but I've been seeing the same faces at the same casinos since 2006. Every time I travel and play at the casino there, I see the same faces from months to years ago. These are the long time pros I'm talking about. There seemed to be a denial of their existence in this thread.

I don't know what these guys' (and gals') long term goals are, but I can't imagine most of them wanting to grind until they're 60. Maybe they don't have a plan and are just saving up money until poker completely dries up. Or they live beyond their means and spend it all. Or they really truly love poker/are addicted to poker and just want to play every day for as long as they can.

Either way, I agree that poker as a long term, 20+ year career is only feasible for those who truly love poker and are discipline/talented enough.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:56 PM   #4884
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

there are a few absolute sickos that are still somehow on cloud 9 every time they play poker. they're doing what they love so good for them.i remember the first time i ever played poker online i one tabled .5/1 limit on party poker on dial up for probably 16 hours straight with lee jone's book next to me and loved every second of it! these days poker is pretty boring.

most normal grinders kind of sort of still like poker some of the time but basically it beats working a real job.

there definitely are some of the same faces from 5-10 years ago still quietly winning at a decent clip year in year out who are smart with their money. some have also started businesses, invested in real estate etc who come around a little less bc they don't have to grind full time anymore.and some really just have nothing else going on except poker.

i know personally the first 7 years i played poker was 99% all online. i was spoiled. i could sit on my ass at home playing a stupid game on my computer and make good money at it. in the last 7 it's gradually become all live. i have to travel a lot,spend money to do so, lot of driving, dealing with degenerate scumbags in person (in fairness also interact with some really interesting people), worthless floor and dealers, hear cry baby stories all the time etc. not to mention just dealing with lots of people i don't like ( and i don't like a lot of regs bc they're terrible for the game) It's definitely not something i want to be doing in 20 years.hell within 5 years i hope i'm only playing 600-800 hours a year (with my investments growing and not being touched) and within 10 years basically being done with poker on anything resembling a regular basis.
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Old 08-10-2018, 03:57 PM   #4885
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Hypothetically, there are people who could play 35 years full-time and do fine, but if they are smart with their money and save up, they can create investment opportunities, start a business, and/or just start playing less hours after 5-10 years.

That's basically my plan - save up a nice amount of money, start a business or make some investments, and still play professionally - but way less hours, mostly tournaments and just the occasional cash game.

So really you have D) being attacked from both sides - a lot of people aren't good enough, aren't good enough with their money, aren't disciplined enough, etc, and then a lot of the ones who are will also be looking for an exit.

Also, a lot of times when people relocate the locals there think they went broke or quit, so you're also looking for people who played 35 years full-time and succeeded without relocating.
That's my plan too.

We rarely see poker pros who have been around for 35 years because the game has evolved. Those who have played for 35 years are at least 55 years old. They are the old (school) nits that got chased off by the wave of aggro online kids that arrived around late-2000's. The few I know are disdainful af towards the fresh faced pros who keep running over the table.

I'd imagine old pros who were around during the Party Poker/Moneymaker boom days and invested wisely are pretty much retired and play for a little extra spending money/mental stimulation/social interaction.

I have no idea what poker will be like 30 years from now but it would be pretty sad if the grinders of today are still grinding full-time out of necessity because they failed to save their money.
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Old 08-10-2018, 04:15 PM   #4886
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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That's my plan too.

We rarely see poker pros who have been around for 35 years because the game has evolved. Those who have played for 35 years are at least 55 years old. They are the old (school) nits that got chased off by the wave of aggro online kids that arrived around late-2000's. The few I know are disdainful af towards the fresh faced pros who keep running over the table.

I'd imagine old pros who were around during the Party Poker/Moneymaker boom days and invested wisely are pretty much retired and play for a little extra spending money/mental stimulation/social interaction.

I have no idea what poker will be like 30 years from now but it would be pretty sad if the grinders of today are still grinding full-time out of necessity because they failed to save their money.
there's a guy specifically i'm thinking of who is in his 60's, the game has long past him by who thinks he is god's gift to poker.he is a miserable annoying nit who is terrible for the game who is still playing for rent money with nothing saved.he might grind out 20-30k in a good year but is perfectly capable of having losing or break even years. he genuinely thinks he is running bad, is jealous of players who are doing well etc. he has played poker for 30+ years and saved nothing. he likes to brag about the big games he used to play in 20-30 years ago as though it is some kind of accomplishment to have played in big games and have nothing to show for it.his game is exactly the same as it was 20 years ago, which obviously isn't going to win much at all if anything. I know when i was crushing nl online in 2006 i played something like 15/5 and printed absurd amounts of money. What a world!

he also thinks it's an accomplishment to be better at poker than some business dude who gets hammered and plays poker for fun.when the business dude leaves the table he'll say things like "so and so could never win at poker in a million years" and everyone just looks at him like man you really don't get it.

He is the epitome of a cautionary tale. You don't want to become this guy.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:27 PM   #4887
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

^I know a guy who matches this description almost 100%. He is around 60 and the most miserable scumbag nit ever. He loves to abuse and blame the dealers for not being able to beat the game. I don't know his financial situation but he pretends to be a balla talking about big games he used to play/allegedly still plays (home games). But every time I see him, he min buys at 2/5, waits for AA and just shoves pre so he can't get outplayed.

I know a couple of others guys who match this description maybe 75%. They're not as miserable and they've adjusted their game slightly to have more creativity. For the most part, they just bumhunt like crazy and mostly play 1/2 where their main skillset of nutmining can still pay off.

Yeah, don't end up like that guy.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:16 AM   #4888
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Most of my friends with money drive old hondas or toyotas- same for me.
Most of my broke friends leverage themselves on expensive cars like idiots.
There are tons of guys in poker with 40k cars and 25k rolls a bad run away from being busto. To me it's stupid.

I've looked at new cars lately, but then I end up saying this is stupid I'm better off leaving that money in vanguard and driving my old reliable car. And then i'll play pots worth more than my car.

I think that's smart as long as your car works ok and you're fairly happy with it.

We got my wife a new car in 2013. I'd never had a "new car" before, so when my prior car bit it soon after, I thought about it a while and ended up getting myself a new car in 2014. I never had a brand new one before. She got a $22,000 or so Sonata and I got a $24,500 or so Camry. Neither of us had ever before had an actually new car, so maybe it was nice that we got to get a new car, but I don't know that it was worth it. You could probably find just as serviceable a car to get you from place to place well for a lot less money. And leave the rest in vanguard as you said (some of the index funds).
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:05 AM   #4889
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
A) When you talk about investing your profit after 5 years you are not talking about playing poker as a career; you are talking about playing poker as a job while you are young and then hitting and running it into investing.

B) I specifically said, "I think playing poker as a career is a disaster."
Most people with careers put money aside to invest. Those who don't pay for it later by having to either work many more years before they are able to retire, or having to live a different lifestyle. Thinking of investing as 'hitting and running,' or as an indication that it's a job and not a career, is a huge leak in your game.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:23 AM   #4890
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by miamicheats View Post
There is a newer pro (maybe 2 years on the scene) that reminds me so much of this thread.

He was crushing it for months, hitting every gutter, flush draw, bluffs getting through, heroes being right, etc. He is a thinking player but also mashed a ton of buttons and to many appeared to be really good. Now he is downswinging hard and every one of those plays is resulting in a loss. I hear other players whispering about how he isnít good etc.

To the best of my knowledge he was playing 100% on his own dime. Now Iím fairly certain he is either getting staked or will need on shortly.

Variance (in both directions) is a cruel mistress. It can fool someone into thinking they have a greater edge than they actually do and obviously be soul crushing when on the other side.


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Anyone who has been around (not too many people actually) has seen ^^^ countless times. It's a lot more the rule with "crushers" than it is the exception. And even if the dude/chick is smug AF while the heater is plugged in (standard), it's really hard to watch once the heater is unplugged...

People just cannot/will not even begin to grasp how great a role variance plays in live poker results, particularly in full ring games (aka almost all games). I mean win rate discussions are still a huge joke in 2018/they are still basically an average of those running top 10%.

FTR, it's not my crusade at all to "show people the light" wrt poker. I've made peace with the fact that those on heaters and/or with the dream to be world champ or whatever just ain't hearing it. And that's fine. I'm not their dad and to each their own obv. I just want this thread to be the one place people can actually get the real ****- if they want it. I want to help those who are hearing it/continue to help some people make the very smart choice to keep poker part-time. So I will always push back on what I deem to be really bad advice- like suggesting poker as a career is a good idea when there is really zero data/logic to support that claim, just a few outliers (wrt variance, money management, etc) saying "look at me though."

Honestly, those with pipe dreams and/or who feel they are just that much better than the field-- so much so that they can fade the massive variance, the brutally slow pace, the ever-increasing rake, the ever-improving competition, not to mention the soul sucking (when you are in it too much) environment, etc-- should probably just not read this thread until they need it (maybe never).
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:27 AM   #4891
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I appreciate this thread. Iíve been flirting with the idea of quitting my job to go back to poker full time. The job is hard and low paying. I work with special needs kids to improve behavior and their quality of life. I donít make anywhere near 55k, but my cost of living in rural Massachusetts is way lower than LA. Thanks for always being a reminder of how abysmal being a poker pro can be.
Thanks man. Much respect for what you do. You get stuff from your job that you would never get in poker, stuff that really matters wrt to inner peace/happiness imo. Keep it up if you can, and make time for poker too if you like it/are good at it. Then you just win imo.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:29 AM   #4892
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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people love to be results oriented/often contradict themselves when describing what a "good player" is.

example) "man this player is so aggressive; hes good and tough to play against", but when that same player is getting called down/running into big hands it becomes "man that guy is massive spew"

i guess as you move up in stakes it becomes more mathematical/solver based.

also, doctor money is not $100k. $150k would be the very low end of most doctors with an MD. most doctors are making 250k+ and have various perks such as insurance. you also have job security and (mostly) guaranteed income. software engineers in the silicon valley (yes i get the silicon valley is insanely expensive) are making upwards of $300-500k/year (some even more) when you factor in salary+stock+bonuses. add in unlimited vacation time, free lunch/dinners, insurance/401k etc.

im not saying 100k isnt a lot of money. but 100k income is attainable by like the top 0.5% of your player pool in your casino (if that). and you are constantly thinking about what your games will look like in 1 year, 2 years, 5 years. and what you will be doing in 20 years when you have a family.

poker as a FT job seems really awful. poker as a part-time job is the nuts.
Solid, solid post. A big yup to the bolded too.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:33 AM   #4893
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
You're right that people who grind for 35 years are going to be miserable.I see these cautionary tales in the poker rooms I play.Nobody should aspire to grind poker for 35 years.

But that's bc they were stupid with their money.Making good money from poker, saving it and investing it wisely is the right play.

There are people with very good jobs who work for 40 years, finally retire at 65 and have a few years to enjoy the money before they croak. And then there are people who have really good jobs,invest wisely and retire at 40.

The differences is with poker- it's really easy to piss through the money when a lot comes in a short amount of time if you aren't disciplined. It's also easy to travel for poker spending a lot of money, but winning a lot so you think it was money well spent when really you basically spent all of your ev on hotels flights etc. To top it off there is a ton of temptation when you're in casinos all of the time. It takes the right personality to fade all of this but still do well in poker.

There are without a doubt some 5/10 grinders this year who will make 150k-200k this year. They're good and they're running like god. And most of them will piss away most of that money thinking it's sustainable when it isn't.That's the beginning of being a cautionary tale in 35 years.
Borg,

A) Seems a bit judgmental/close-minded to use the word "stupid".

B) Should anyone wanting to start a family play poker for a living?

Spoiler:
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:34 AM   #4894
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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i've seen plenty of these people.
there was one two years ago in my plo pool. i maintained he is absolutely ****ing terrible but he was crushing it.other players i talked to told me he was good. i laughed. he was flopping top boat 5 times a night, winning every race in hands that played themselves (ie top set vs wrap flush draw) winning every 80/20, hitting 1-2 outers himself 3-5 times a month etc.He ran good in every possible way you could run good including just getting smashed with the deck in the right games.He without a doubt made more money than anyone in this pool 2 years ago.

Back then he was buying in for the max in whatever game we played.
Last year he got decimated, and now he's a min buyer who plays like a wounded dog.

Most people just saw how much he was winning and thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. I saw HOW he was winning, how he was playing and how well he was running and knew the entire thing was a mirage.
I've seen many. I see some.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:38 AM   #4895
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
exactly, this is why you save and invest well.
just like i say how well you play fundamentally means so much less than your mental game handling swings etc (once you're at least halfway decent), how good you are with money matters a lot more than what you actually make.
I agree with the latter part of your statement a lot. Do you agree though that not everyone (people with family obligations, people who have big expenses come up, people who run meh, etc) is in a position to save significant money?
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:51 AM   #4896
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
Hypothetically, there are people who could play 35 years full-time and do fine,
How can you possibly say that though? Full-time poker destroys people over time (way before 35 years). It just does. Look at the data.


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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
but if they are smart with their money and save up, they can create investment opportunities, start a business, and/or just start playing less hours after 5-10 years.
Yeah, well that is not playing poker as a career. It's what I said before. And somehow people just seem to be forgetting about all the non-financial downsides (how hard it is to transition out mainly) of playing full-time.


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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
That's basically my plan - save up a nice amount of money, start a business or make some investments, and still play professionally - but way less hours, mostly tournaments and just the occasional cash game.
That's fine and I wish you the BOL- sincerely. Just don't expect your win rate to be what it has been, and don't ignore the non-financial aspects of that plan/transition either imo.

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Originally Posted by cuserounder View Post
So really you have D) being attacked from both sides - a lot of people aren't good enough, aren't good enough with their money, aren't disciplined enough, etc, and then a lot of the ones who are will also be looking for an exit.

Also, a lot of times when people relocate the locals there think they went broke or quit, so you're also looking for people who played 35 years full-time and succeeded without relocating.
Almost no one is good enough. Those that are depend on running reasonably well+. They also can't have kids. Etc. Has nothing to do with relocating imo. They just don't exist.
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Old 08-11-2018, 08:56 AM   #4897
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by NoExit View Post
This was what I was getting at. I don't know a lot of the long time 5/10 pros regularly, but I've been seeing the same faces at the same casinos since 2006. Every time I travel and play at the casino there, I see the same faces from months to years ago. These are the long time pros I'm talking about. There seemed to be a denial of their existence in this thread.

I don't know what these guys' (and gals') long term goals are, but I can't imagine most of them wanting to grind until they're 60. Maybe they don't have a plan and are just saving up money until poker completely dries up. Or they live beyond their means and spend it all. Or they really truly love poker/are addicted to poker and just want to play every day for as long as they can.

Either way, I agree that poker as a long term, 20+ year career is only feasible for those who truly love poker and are discipline/talented enough.
You are drawing conclusions based on seeing the same faces for 12 years? In what games? I have been playing full time over that stretch and know the Vegas and SoCal scenes pretty intimately. Almost no1 around from 2006. Plenty of "rich kids". None of the outlier vets are happy. Etc.

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Old 08-11-2018, 08:59 AM   #4898
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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That's my plan too.

We rarely see poker pros who have been around for 35 years because the game has evolved. Those who have played for 35 years are at least 55 years old. They are the old (school) nits that got chased off by the wave of aggro online kids that arrived around late-2000's. The few I know are disdainful af towards the fresh faced pros who keep running over the table.

I'd imagine old pros who were around during the Party Poker/Moneymaker boom days and invested wisely are pretty much retired and play for a little extra spending money/mental stimulation/social interaction.

I have no idea what poker will be like 30 years from now but it would be pretty sad if the grinders of today are still grinding full-time out of necessity because they failed to save their money.
Right/sure. So poker isn't a great career choice then...
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:17 AM   #4899
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by rbenuck4 View Post
Most people with careers put money aside to invest. Those who don't pay for it later by having to either work many more years before they are able to retire, or having to live a different lifestyle. Thinking of investing as 'hitting and running,' or as an indication that it's a job and not a career, is a huge leak in your game.
I didn't say investing was hitting and running lol. Here is what happened imo...

A few people basically said, "Poker is a career choice!"

I basically replied, "Nah, it eats away at you over time/there are a lot of issues with it, plus you are prob on a massive heater right now if you are even saying that, etc."

They basically replied, "Well, you just play a few years and then invest."

I then basically said, "Well, that's not a career then. It's hitting and running the game (which I passed no judgment on/I think is way smarter than continuing to chase your heater actually)..."

But yeah, I'm just gonna always push back on what I believe to be horrible advice/bad influence/survivorship bias for days. But I'm gonna go back to only doing it on Tuesdays cuz it takes up too much of my time/tilts me too hard otherwise.

Also, I won't tolerate being judged for my poor money management or anything else. I don't judge y'all for living differently than I do...

This thread is a cautionary tale about playing poker for a living. It is not a cautionary tale about life. I ****ing live my life/I will play anyone hu at the game of life.

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Peace. See y'all Tuesday.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:06 PM   #4900
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
You are drawing conclusions based on seeing the same faces for 12 years? In what games? I have been playing full time over that stretch and know the Vegas and SoCal scenes pretty intimately. Almost no1 around from 2006. Plenty of "rich kids". None of the outlier vets are happy. Etc.

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Probably one of the most eye opening posts itt. Especially considering how every young hotshot crusher I regularly played with on the west coast eventually moved down to Vegas or LA.
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