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Old 07-11-2018, 08:31 PM   #4601
NoExit
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
My new least favorite thing in poker is "winning" regs talking about how good they perceive the game to be at the table, how much they think they're making an hour, etc.

Here's the thing. Stop saying stuff like that. I get it, you're playing in a game where you can win a whole $1000 in a session which is a decent chunk of money in the real world and you've confused the fact that you're able to fold 80% of your hands on the first round of betting while your opponents play 80% of their hands as some sort of actual talent.

I have bad news. Your opponents are the ones winning at life and just want to have fun and splash some chips around. They can hear you snickering about their starting hand selection. They know you're talking about them. That's not the way to keep a poker game running, and it's not the way to talk about other human beings who are treating you with respect and just want to enjoy themselves while giving you the best of it.

I have worse news. What separates you from most recreational players is their boredom. If they wanted to, most of them could play just about as well as you. At least to the point where the result will probably be that you both lose to the rake. What separates you from a true professional player is something that will take many hundreds if not thousands of hours to come close to, and is potentially unattainable.

Like 75% of my hours since the end of May have been in pretty much the smallest games I've ever played seriously live since 2007, so while I'm sure this has been a thing for a long time, it's a relatively new thing to me.
At what stakes do you see this behavior? I rarely see this at 5/10. Sometimes I'll see it at 5/5. I assume these type of "winning regs" who aren't that skilled but can beat the game by waiting for value hands don't survive at 5/10+ to be making these comments.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:52 PM   #4602
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Hello All--It's David; DGAFs assistant on the "Solicited Advice" podcast. He asked me to drop in and post a quick note.

First off, thank you so much to those that have listened to the podcast and posted some good press for us. It's actually quite a bit of work to get them done (especially for DGAF; who is "producing" them), and it feels great to get feedback (positive or negative actually--because then we know people are listening, and it lets us know we are provoking some thought/discussion).

Second, it's great to see that some of the episodes have started some really interesting discussions here on this board. If possible, please submit your questions (or desired topics) to our email (solicitedadvicepodcast@gmail.com). That way we can queue them up and cover them on the air.

Great thoughts about the whole "aging dilemma". I'm thinking we should have a whole show on aging (since everybody, to my knowledge, has to deal with it). Really not sure where things will go in the future--I hope it is true that technology will ultimately make us live longer and more functionally, but I have my doubts. I do think nature may have a natural "off switch" for us. [I should say--I'm neither religious nor political; so my perspective is definitely not driven by any agenda).

Homelessness is such a vexing dilemma. I constantly struggle with how to think about it. All you have to do is walk around San Diego, Los Angeles, or San Francisco to see what a scourge it is; and what we are doing clearly isn't working. We just went through a horrible Hepatitis A epidemic in San Diego (related to the lack of bathroom facilities) and it was just a fiasco. Very interested in peoples thoughts. Again--I'm thinking might be good to devote a whole episode to this issue.

Thanks again everybody. It's a privilege to be able to reach out and engender creative thinking and maybe make some people feel a bit better about themselves and their role in this crazy ride. Again please submit questions, thoughts, topics, suggestions to our email address:
solicitedadvicepodcast@gmail.com
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:15 AM   #4603
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
My new least favorite thing in poker is "winning" regs talking about how good they perceive the game to be at the table, how much they think they're making an hour, etc.

Here's the thing. Stop saying stuff like that. I get it, you're playing in a game where you can win a whole $1000 in a session which is a decent chunk of money in the real world and you've confused the fact that you're able to fold 80% of your hands on the first round of betting while your opponents play 80% of their hands as some sort of actual talent.

I have bad news. Your opponents are the ones winning at life and just want to have fun and splash some chips around. They can hear you snickering about their starting hand selection. They know you're talking about them. That's not the way to keep a poker game running, and it's not the way to talk about other human beings who are treating you with respect and just want to enjoy themselves while giving you the best of it.

I have worse news. What separates you from most recreational players is their boredom. If they wanted to, most of them could play just about as well as you. At least to the point where the result will probably be that you both lose to the rake. What separates you from a true professional player is something that will take many hundreds if not thousands of hours to come close to, and is potentially unattainable.

Like 75% of my hours since the end of May have been in pretty much the smallest games I've ever played seriously live since 2007, so while I'm sure this has been a thing for a long time, it's a relatively new thing to me.
+1 and well said
If you play poker full time, beating people splashing around isn't an accomplishment.Make sure they have fun.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:19 AM   #4604
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Thank you David!

I do think that it would be nice if you had more poker content on the podcast, because your main audience will be forum members and there are already a lot of other podcasts out there that cover philosophical / life / science topics.

Some hand stories from DGAF with his emotional experience included and more stories from "The Abyss" would be appreciated for sure! I think the raw, real and deep way in which DGAF spoke about his experience as a poker pro is what really drew most of us into this thread and made it a 2+2 classic. Would also just enjoy some hand histories ��

As for the "aging dilemma" I think all of human history has been a struggle against nature. Once upon a time it was normal to die or be crippled by polio, for most children to die before adulthood, for most people to live a very simple and poor life as farmers, etc.

It's hard for me to imagine what the fundamental barriers that can't be crossed would be, given that our tech seems now to be progressing at an exponential rate with more people and computers etc in science than ever before and that many times before in history we've done things that were previously unthinkable, or just thought to be against the law of God or Nature.

Last edited by pilliapina; 07-12-2018 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:51 PM   #4605
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by pilliapina View Post
Thank you David!

I do think that it would be nice if you had more poker content on the podcast, because your main audience will be forum members and there are already a lot of other podcasts out there that cover philosophical / life / science topics.

Some hand stories from DGAF with his emotional experience included and more stories from "The Abyss" would be appreciated for sure! I think the raw, real and deep way in which DGAF spoke about his experience as a poker pro is what really drew most of us into this thread and made it a 2+2 classic. Would also just enjoy some hand histories ��

As for the "aging dilemma" I think all of human history has been a struggle against nature. Once upon a time it was normal to die or be crippled by polio, for most children to die before adulthood, for most people to live a very simple and poor life as farmers, etc.

It's hard for me to imagine what the fundamental barriers that can't be crossed would be, given that our tech seems now to be progressing at an exponential rate with more people and computers etc in science than ever before and that many times before in history we've done things that were previously unthinkable, or just thought to be against the law of God or Nature.

+1. Would love to hear more poker stuff, both regarding to mental issues connected to poker, mental challenges in poker, different forms of tilt, how to create and maintain good games and absolutely more about the Abyss.
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Old 07-12-2018, 05:35 PM   #4606
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Every once in a rare while I will have a dream that involves poker. These dreams are typically quite unrealistic.

Watching someone get dealt AA vs two players holding KK and getting aipf 3 ways on the ME FT bubble and having 100% equity on the flop against the shorter stack and 100% equity on the turn against the larger stack was even less realistic than any dream I've ever had. I was drinking with DGAF and watching this on TV and I honestly half thought I was hallucinating when this hand started happening.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:17 AM   #4607
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
My new least favorite thing in poker is "winning" regs talking about how good they perceive the game to be at the table, how much they think they're making an hour, etc.

Here's the thing. Stop saying stuff like that. I get it, you're playing in a game where you can win a whole $1000 in a session which is a decent chunk of money in the real world and you've confused the fact that you're able to fold 80% of your hands on the first round of betting while your opponents play 80% of their hands as some sort of actual talent.

I have bad news. Your opponents are the ones winning at life and just want to have fun and splash some chips around. They can hear you snickering about their starting hand selection. They know you're talking about them. That's not the way to keep a poker game running, and it's not the way to talk about other human beings who are treating you with respect and just want to enjoy themselves while giving you the best of it.

I have worse news. What separates you from most recreational players is their boredom. If they wanted to, most of them could play just about as well as you. At least to the point where the result will probably be that you both lose to the rake. What separates you from a true professional player is something that will take many hundreds if not thousands of hours to come close to, and is potentially unattainable.

Like 75% of my hours since the end of May have been in pretty much the smallest games I've ever played seriously live since 2007, so while I'm sure this has been a thing for a long time, it's a relatively new thing to me.
Great post. I've been on this **** for a decade tho! Clueless is the poker world. Clueless!
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:18 AM   #4608
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
^^^^^ this in SPADES. There is nothing more irritating that hearing this nonsense from average to decent regs in my room. I usually am the one to start the taunting and/or booze drinking to move the conversation away from this.

As a rec player who wants to have fun and try to win a few bucks in the process, please please please talk about ANYTHING other than the state of the game(s) in the room. We'll all be better off.
Shifting conversations/vibe is an art. Gj.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:21 AM   #4609
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by NoExit View Post
At what stakes do you see this behavior? I rarely see this at 5/10. Sometimes I'll see it at 5/5. I assume these type of "winning regs" who aren't that skilled but can beat the game by waiting for value hands don't survive at 5/10+ to be making these comments.
Spot on. They can't win higher and it's def a $5 bb epidemic.

Spoiler:
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:24 AM   #4610
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Naimark View Post
Hello All--It's David; DGAFs assistant on the "Solicited Advice" podcast. He asked me to drop in and post a quick note.

First off, thank you so much to those that have listened to the podcast and posted some good press for us. It's actually quite a bit of work to get them done (especially for DGAF; who is "producing" them), and it feels great to get feedback (positive or negative actually--because then we know people are listening, and it lets us know we are provoking some thought/discussion).

Second, it's great to see that some of the episodes have started some really interesting discussions here on this board. If possible, please submit your questions (or desired topics) to our email (solicitedadvicepodcast@gmail.com). That way we can queue them up and cover them on the air.

Great thoughts about the whole "aging dilemma". I'm thinking we should have a whole show on aging (since everybody, to my knowledge, has to deal with it). Really not sure where things will go in the future--I hope it is true that technology will ultimately make us live longer and more functionally, but I have my doubts. I do think nature may have a natural "off switch" for us. [I should say--I'm neither religious nor political; so my perspective is definitely not driven by any agenda).

Homelessness is such a vexing dilemma. I constantly struggle with how to think about it. All you have to do is walk around San Diego, Los Angeles, or San Francisco to see what a scourge it is; and what we are doing clearly isn't working. We just went through a horrible Hepatitis A epidemic in San Diego (related to the lack of bathroom facilities) and it was just a fiasco. Very interested in peoples thoughts. Again--I'm thinking might be good to devote a whole episode to this issue.

Thanks again everybody. It's a privilege to be able to reach out and engender creative thinking and maybe make some people feel a bit better about themselves and their role in this crazy ride. Again please submit questions, thoughts, topics, suggestions to our email address:
solicitedadvicepodcast@gmail.com
David is the man. He truly has a beautiful mind (never saw the movie so it's just a description. not a reference). Send anything you want to discuss to the email address he listed and we will take it on. Thanks all!
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:25 AM   #4611
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by borg23 View Post
+1 and well said
If you play poker full time, beating people splashing around isn't an accomplishment.Make sure they have fun.
yup
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:37 AM   #4612
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by Petrucci View Post
+1. Would love to hear more poker stuff, both regarding to mental issues connected to poker, mental challenges in poker, different forms of tilt, how to create and maintain good games and absolutely more about the Abyss.
OK you guys got me. David is out of town and I'm at his place. The microphone we use is just staring at me and there is a big boy Asylum in the fridge. I'm gonna attempt to record some poker **** tonight (and maybe tomorrow) solo as to get it out of the way a little.

In general though I want the show to be my strategic mind and tough love approach combined with David's educated mind and therapeutic approach tackling anything and everything that is thrown at us. So if you want poker related content beyond what I spew tonight (and maybe tomorrow), please send us some poker-related issues...

Thanks guys. Gonna podcast in just a few.
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:48 AM   #4613
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Shifting conversations/vibe is an art. Gj.
I learned it by reading about you!

/insert 80s 'just say no' commercial

Luckily a few in my room get the hint when I give them the needle. Coincidentally they're the bigger winners in the room. The rest are clueless. It comes down to whether I'm gonna kill them with kindness and mindless chit-chat or if I'll relentlessly make fun of them until the overall vibe changes.
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Old 07-13-2018, 04:50 PM   #4614
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...b-after-magic/

^^^ A good article for those trying to get out of poker, written by my most successful (by my definition- not just wealth) friend.
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Old 07-13-2018, 05:48 PM   #4615
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

The advise about calendars and to do lists is gold. I have hired a truckload of people. The ones that got fired almost always did not have this skill.

Once you have found a job please know that your perceived reliability might be almost as important as your ability. You talent is not valuable if you boss/company feels that can’t count on it. Most jobs are not that hard. Finding someone who wants to learn be a good team member and show up on time 249 of 250 working days a year is surprisingly hard.


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Old 07-16-2018, 12:27 AM   #4616
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Dgaf what do you do when you realize you're turning into vanessa selbst (not physicly). My PF isn't as clicky but every time I'm in a pot with someone and we are deep and I think there range is capped all I can think about is how they can't call my jam. I'm playing as many all ins in NL as I do in plo
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:28 AM   #4617
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Dgaf what do you do when you realize you're turning into vanessa selbst (not physicly). My PF isn't as clicky but every time I'm in a pot with someone and we are deep and I think there range is capped all I can think about is how they can't call my jam. I'm playing as many all ins in NL as I do in plo
I turned into Vanessa Selbst 10 years ago. You tell me.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:39 PM   #4618
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

DGAF do you still watch poker events like the main, one drop, shrb, and other high rollers?

if so do you have any general thoughts on the main event (both in general, and also the 2018 main)?

also any thoughts on the last hand that was played? IMO it wasn't a slowroll, but was a bit of nitroll, but considering 10+ days of 10+hour days, the mental fatigue, chip stacks (it was a HUGE shove. they were still like 50bb+ deep) and the $3.8MM decision - he absolutely can and should take some time to think it through. but was most likely never going to fold.
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Old 07-16-2018, 02:54 PM   #4619
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by icanadd View Post
The advise about calendars and to do lists is gold. I have hired a truckload of people. The ones that got fired almost always did not have this skill.

Once you have found a job please know that your perceived reliability might be almost as important as your ability. You talent is not valuable if you boss/company feels that can’t count on it. Most jobs are not that hard. Finding someone who wants to learn be a good team member and show up on time 249 of 250 working days a year is surprisingly hard.


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This is great stuff. Thanks for posting the hiring/management perspective. Hopefully those transitioning out take note.
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Old 07-16-2018, 03:46 PM   #4620
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by jc315 View Post
DGAF do you still watch poker events like the main, one drop, shrb, and other high rollers?

if so do you have any general thoughts on the main event (both in general, and also the 2018 main)?

also any thoughts on the last hand that was played? IMO it wasn't a slowroll, but was a bit of nitroll, but considering 10+ days of 10+hour days, the mental fatigue, chip stacks (it was a HUGE shove. they were still like 50bb+ deep) and the $3.8MM decision - he absolutely can and should take some time to think it through. but was most likely never going to fold.
I don't really intentionally watch any of it. It mostly makes me cringe lol, and honestly I don't understand why no one bluffs and why everyone takes ten years on every decision (there has to be a reason I guess). Can't think of many people in the high rollers I would root for either. Who even smiles?

Spoiler:


I did watch the last 5 hours or so of the main. I probably only did because I used to play with John quite a bit at Commerce and he is such an outlier human being in terms of niceness and positivity (not just saying that cuz he won- I don't do **** like that). Also I was texting back and forth with gman the entire time who was on a family vacation and ****ing up his sleep schedule/vacation but couldn't sleep til it was over either lol- cuz of John.

Here are my thoughts on what I saw/watched:

1. Phil Helmuth came off like he was trolling (like usual) from the booth and I'm 90% that's actually just him on level 1. So out of touch, so wrong about so many decisions both players made lol, such a delusional and goofy celebrity, etc. I enjoyed it though. Nothing I liked better than unintentional comedy. Seriously. And I think he is absolutely great for the game/pretty damn harmless/just who he is- like all of us.

2. Both players were incredibly exhausted. I know John is a good player and tbh I don't think he played very well at all. Partly it goes to show how different hu is than fr (what he no doubt rakes in), but A LOT of it was fatigue. I made it to day 6 once- no cameras, no family and friends there, no social media back then lol, and it was THE MOST DRAINING EXPERIENCE OF MY LIFE. When John bet "24 thousand" instead of '24 million", not only was that hilarious imo but also I totally understood the fatigue factor had set in- it had set way in.

3. John's inner peace, humility and soulfulness were on display throughout. I'm not close with him by any stretch (didn't even text him cuz I thought it would curse him lol), but I am incredibly happy for him and for poker. Yeah it would be best if a fish or a female had won, but it's also chill that poker just got a ton classier and a ton more chill. Looking forward to seeing his smile everywhere...

Spoiler:


4. The other kid was an amazing character. He seemed troubled beneath the surface (like most of us- me definitely), and he seemed to be doing his best to ward off those demons. I empathize with him plenty and hope he wrestles those demons (if my read is right) with a mental health/addiction expert and eventually becomes more like John. I hope that for all of us.

5. The last hand was 100% fine given the circumstances. The other kid finally cracked and John only beats a draw/bluff (in theory). Both John being thoughtful there (hey, that's what he is) and the other kid tilting after a little were FINE imo.

6. Still- no one grasps variance/everyone is results oriented. John def ran better than the other kid. And if that kid had AK on that last hand a lot of people who said, "wtf why isn't John snap calling??!" would have no doubt said, "I think that's a fold there. Tough spot though." God bless poker.

7. The coaches for each player is such a funny concept imo. I think trying to teach these guys stuff on the fly in that setting while so exhausted is sketchy, but I do agree with the making simple adjustments aspect. I'd rather have a meditation guru or something, someone to keep me in the zone despite the incredible fatigue factor. Regardless, coaches are an interesting/entertaining aspect.

8. The whole thing was incredible theater. So ****ing human. No bad guys and no good guys, just people with their inherent temperaments trying to fade or embrace their life variance, and two guys definitely trying to wrap their heads around their amazing luck in the Main Event of the World Series of Poker! Variance for days. No reason to judge anyone imo. Just enjoy how different everyone is and let yourself be entertained while hopefully learning something imo.
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:01 PM   #4621
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

It is a pity that Qui Nguyen from two years past did not get more publicity and sort of faded into oblivion. He is actually a stereotype of a crasian (I use that term lovingly) gambler, you frequently see in 2 5 and 5 10 NL games, that is fearless, above average hand reader, but plays too many hands and is too aggressive and also plays too much and too high of baccarat for his own good, but can easily run up 20k+ on a 2 5 NL table on a good night.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:10 AM   #4622
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Just listened to the Sean podcast. I haven't been able to make it through the others yet because it feels a little too much like work. This one got bumped up though due to personal connection. This was some super raw stuff obviously and I want to congratulate everyone. I have had countless talks with Sean and know everything discussed and much more so I can vouch for the authenticity of the episode. I can't really post too much on the subject without permission but just want to encourage people who haven't listened to give this a try. The single most astonishing part is that we all have leaks and even players with unlimited talent can be held back by something as simple as poker being the wrong fit for their personality and general disposition.

The other thing that was touched on briefly and something the up and comers should seriously listen to is the fact that poker as a full time job/career is a miserable existence. I am too lazy to search my own posts and hardly consider it prophetic but I said this exact thing many times on this forum and directly to Sean himself as far back as the very first time he sat and played 20/40 lhe with mikeL and I in about 2004 ish. I hope a decade and a half later that will sink in and also prevent some of you early 20s guys out there from taking the same brutal path.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:23 AM   #4623
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

It was 2007 and 40/80, daddy dont play micro stakes

Although I'm having a hoot and a half in a 2/3 pot limit game right now while dgaf wastes his life away in a holdem game right next to me
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Old 07-19-2018, 04:38 AM   #4624
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

haha. Love this thread
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:15 PM   #4625
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by surf doc View Post
Just listened to the Sean podcast. I haven't been able to make it through the others yet because it feels a little too much like work. This one got bumped up though due to personal connection. This was some super raw stuff obviously and I want to congratulate everyone. I have had countless talks with Sean and know everything discussed and much more so I can vouch for the authenticity of the episode. I can't really post too much on the subject without permission but just want to encourage people who haven't listened to give this a try. The single most astonishing part is that we all have leaks and even players with unlimited talent can be held back by something as simple as poker being the wrong fit for their personality and general disposition.

The other thing that was touched on briefly and something the up and comers should seriously listen to is the fact that poker as a full time job/career is a miserable existence. I am too lazy to search my own posts and hardly consider it prophetic but I said this exact thing many times on this forum and directly to Sean himself as far back as the very first time he sat and played 20/40 lhe with mikeL and I in about 2004 ish. I hope a decade and a half later that will sink in and also prevent some of you early 20s guys out there from taking the same brutal path.
Delete the second sentence and this is an amazing post imo. I believe both Sean and I will be on to better things soon.

Listen up young bucks!
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