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Old 03-20-2018, 02:59 PM   #4201
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by YGOchamp View Post
Agreed. We should be pushing the ante movement over straddle movement if anything. Both are great, but ante's seem like an amazing way to re-vitalize games and give them a great deal of action.

fwiw I don't think straddles have made any game I've played in considerably tighter, people just start limping a much higher % of their range instead of opening and you'll get multiple people limp/calling 5x opens -- obv very dependant on individual lineups but this has been common ime


wrt utg/btn straddle: yes we all know utg is "better" in relative terms. But surely none of you think you'd prefer no straddle over a button straddle? The big advantage is that its just inf easier to convince people to do a button straddle, whereas a lot of people hate putting in money blind utg. If you can get utg going thats great, but talk what you can get imo
People are used to straddle tho, and ante only works when one person posts it- and (hopefully without sounding like a douche) that's just too much of a mental blow/mind**** for most players (posting all that money once a round).

I personally would take button straddle over no straddle, but prob just cuz I like action. I don't think I've ever asked a table to button straddle.

Side note: I have Mississippi straddled every hand myself for like 12 hours before at the Bike, which was v fun.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:00 PM   #4202
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
The deep stack ship has mostly sailed. There are times to add on a ton, but mostly buying in deep is wack (again there are exceptions).

My experience is def not that straddles tighten up games. And I have A LOT of experience with straddles. Maybe they do more so at 2-5-10 (where I have very little experience)?

Each position up to the cutoff has one less player behind them compared to no straddle. This should broaden opening ranges.

There is 100-150% more in blinds. More money to make a play at and more reason to enter (getting blinded to death becomes real).

Tight players often leave.

Am I crazy?
you def love straddles more than most.
in plo i think they're great.
in hold em i think they're very table dependent. i've played in some games where it ruins the game and some where it makes it a lot better. imo there is no hard and fast rule.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:05 PM   #4203
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I think it's a little disingenuous for Ranma to claim "rec" status as an excuse to be hostile towards a backpack pro. Based on her post history, which contains 10 years of strategy posts, her approach to the game is more in line with a "reg".

I'm tired of seeing serious recs or regs treat other winning regs with disdain simply because they're "not good for the game." It often just boils down to said serious rec or reg hating on players who hurt their winrate. The quiet winning pros are usually the easiest ones to lash out at because they presumably won't defend themselves due to (1) their perceived shyness and (2) your calling them out for being a pro at the table so they don't want to engage.


Sure, there are some nit regs who are a cancer to poker and deserve the hostility. And yes, there is a higher percentage of these cancerous nit regs among the backpack wearing population. It's still not right to stereotype any solid player who wears a backpack and be hostile towards him unless he was actually being a doosh (no, 3-betting you light and stacking the fish you're after does not count as being a doosh). Not every player has been "enlightened" by DGAF's perpsective and they're just there to play a competitive game, which is within their reasonable right. If you're really trying to enlighten him, and not simply lashing out because he's bad for your winrate, you can do it without being a doosh yourself. Perhaps say "hey check this out" and show him this thread on your phone (discreetly or away from the table).
I didn't pick up on her being hostile.

And being a winning player is only one element of "bad for the game". There are endless good and bad things you can do, it's the net result that matters.

You can win A TON and also be GREAT for the game. True story.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:09 PM   #4204
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by mavsfan4ever View Post
I am a winning rec player (I play 1-2 times per month), and I can tell you that straddles definitely make me play tighter. I typically play 2-5 (with a little 5-10 mixed in). If I have a stack of $500-1k in a 2/5 game and a straddle is put on, I'll definitely play less hands than I would if there was no straddle. Keeping the blinds at 2/5 makes me splash around more, take more flops, etc. That goes way down when the effective blind is raised to $10 and the preflop raises, continuation bets, etc are all raised.

Sure, I understand why pros want the straddle, but it's just to increase stakes, not to increase action. I think the action stays the same if the stack sizes are big enough at the table, but decreases a little if the stack sizes aren't large enough.

I never complain about anyone straddling and will go along with the straddle if everyone wants to. But it is a little annoying when everyone wants to straddle when I have just bought in for $500 (that is the max 2/5 buy in at my normal casino) and it definitely forces me to play differently. Why don't the players who are so adamant about straddling just start a 2/5/10 table? I think it's obvious why. Because they want the fish at 2/5 to be forced into playing higher stakes and they don't think the fish will follow them to a 2/5/10 table. Let's just call it for what it is.
I honestly don't have a ton of experience at 2-5, but at 5-10+ the straddle almost always creates action. My sample is very large for this.

Also, you are a winning player...
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:15 PM   #4205
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I go back and forth. I donít think straddle always >>>> no straddle. Usually yes but not always.

Example I always give is last year during WSOP I was in an amazing 10/20 game that basically died once we added a straddle. Some players were probably already playing a bit outside of their comfort zone at 10/20 (because WSOP, vegas yolo, crypto, whatever) so adding the straddle was probably sort of terrifying for them. Not so easy to be loosey goosey and chill when you need to start calling $750 3bets or make $1200 cbets with air. Everyone tightened up and it was a wrap.

BTN straddle is overrated anyway. Even whales know that SB/BB is a death zone and in my experience a lot of games with BTN straddles turn into limp festivals either because they donít want to be priced out or donít want to go 6 ways with KK. Plus letís face it, at our stakes straddling means significant money is in play. There just arenít many people out there who are truly rolled for a 10/20/40. And even if you are, a -20k session stings regardless of how rich you may be. Thatís a car or a trip to Europe.

That being said, you should always still be on the lookout for ways to up the gambly nature of the game in ways that wonít make people uncomfortable. Bomb pots, black or red, betting on whether guy on TV makes a free throw, whatever.
Very solid post.

I found at Bellagio so many times that 10-20 (what was started) proved way too boring for everyone. So it always became 10-20-40, and then it broke because it took people out of their comfort zone.

It's gotta be a sweet spot. I think that sweet spot for "high stakes" these days is 5-10-20.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:22 PM   #4206
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I'm just a low level guy comparatively, but fwiw. Had never played the Venetian until this weekend. They do the button straddle as a 2BB only straddle, with action starting **not** with the SB, but with the UTG.

If it is only called and gets back to the button, it skips the button and hits the SB and the BB, and then back to the button. If it's raised, it just follows in "natural order" (But, SB, BB).

I thought it was a great way to make the button straddle playable. Sure, perhaps would be better if it were allowed to be 3BB or whatever, but, yeah. Thoughts?
UTG straddle is much fairer to the game/more conducive to generating action.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:23 PM   #4207
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Antes are great online but slow the game up too much live imo
si

also there is a relaxing element to not having to put any amount in a decent amount of time
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:30 PM   #4208
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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you def love straddles more than most.
in plo i think they're great.
in hold em i think they're very table dependent. i've played in some games where it ruins the game and some where it makes it a lot better. imo there is no hard and fast rule.
Agree to disagree. I think 3 blinds is the rule in nl, and 2 blinds (or 4+ blinds) is the exception. Speaking to full ring common sized games here.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:31 PM   #4209
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

All caught up, see y'all in a week. Keep firing away imo. Be respectful. Peace.
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Old 03-20-2018, 03:41 PM   #4210
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I think you are selling it correctly and genuinely.

It's more fun, it's faster, you get to play way more poker, you don't have to wait for good starting hands, etc.
Short handed games are obv the nuts, but idk if thereís a ton you can do to get people to stop being averse (I think thatís the correct word) to playing them. Generally the people that want to/will play short are pros and the real action sickos for obv reasons.

As DGAF alludes to, short handed games become much more about skill and less about luck/patience and I think thatís pretty apparent to most people imo. I think this is why average regs, and a lot of recs donít want to play short. I also think some passive fish just donít want to be facing the constant aggression that naturally occurs in those games, sort of like the discussion about 3betting certain guys too much leading to them not wanting to play or tightening up.
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Old 03-21-2018, 12:55 AM   #4211
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I didn't pick up on her being hostile.

And being a winning player is only one element of "bad for the game". There are endless good and bad things you can do, it's the net result that matters.

You can win A TON and also be GREAT for the game. True story.
Sure is

The way I see it is if you're gonna take money out of the poker economy at least put something good into it

Casinos aren't open bc people win.theyre open bc people are entertained.
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:58 AM   #4212
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Regarding backpacks - I donít think this is an issue at all. I see recs and pros that bring them. If anything, they keep more cash and chips on hand and rebuy quicker when felted. When someone has to get up from the table and hit the atm or their casino box there is a greater chance they realize that they are playing poorly or are tilted and may not return.

The issues are tanking on menial decisions and refusing to go along with what the group wants to do- ie a round or two of straddling or a round of making it a blind min raise after the straddle / whatever.

I see pros and now even some recs who will tank for 30-60 seconds on the simplest of decisions to pretend like they are thinking or saving face making it seem like a tough lay down etc. There is a time and place for tanking but itís not any really any pot under a few hundred bigs.

Quiet pros are worse for the game than talkative ones (usually) but they arenít necessarily bad as long as they straddle when the group wants to do a round or give a little action here and there.


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Old 03-24-2018, 01:38 AM   #4213
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

DGAF - I know you say "a quiet game is bad game," but what would you say is a worse game: a quiet game, or a lively game but where the only discussion is strat talk; gossip about hands people played earlier/yesterday where one guy might have done something "retarded"/how big the pot was/who lost what amount of $$$; banter with a fish basically asking him to justify his play in a couple hands in a row --that type of stuff?

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Old 03-24-2018, 06:18 PM   #4214
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Facts:

1) Straddle>>>no straddle in uncapped FR 90+ percent of the time.
2) Button straddle is for pussies.
3) There are pros and then there are pros. Same for recs. Unfortunately, however, we’re all playing the same game.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:51 AM   #4215
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Backpacks: With the WSOP coming up about 3months to go. I like to bring a backpack with my jacket, snacks, eyedrops, misc stuff. My image in somewhat like OP in a slightly different way should I ditch the pack so I look more non reg/tournament donkey??
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Old 03-25-2018, 02:06 PM   #4216
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Backpacks: With the WSOP coming up about 3months to go. I like to bring a backpack with my jacket, snacks, eyedrops, misc stuff. My image in somewhat like OP in a slightly different way should I ditch the pack so I look more non reg/tournament donkey??


I think it depends on your general look tbh

If youíre a 23 year old Asian then I donít think ditching the backpack is gonna fool anyone
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Old 03-25-2018, 07:06 PM   #4217
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I didn't pick up on her being hostile.

And being a winning player is only one element of "bad for the game". There are endless good and bad things you can do, it's the net result that matters.

You can win A TON and also be GREAT for the game. True story.
Pretty sure the backpack pro felt harassed based on his comment below:

Quote:
Haha, pretty sure that was me that you heckled. The odd thing is that was the first time I ever played with you, and I am literally a staple in every $10+ blind game in the region. So kind of weird to see you stereotype me itt. It's true I am quiet, but so what. I am not a dick to recs and am far from a nit. I start ****ty 10/25 games and I generally get along with everyone, particularly at the other casino.

—————-

Agree with everything else you said but only to some extent. It’s hard to deny that the exceptional pros who crush the games will always be intimidating and scare off both fish and regs, no matter how genuinely nice and sociable they are. Most players aren’t oblivious or indifferent to a player who takes $$$$$ from the table on a regular basis. The whale who loves playing against intimidating but friendly crushers is the exception not the norm. Such whales also go extinct quickly due to... Darwinism.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:43 PM   #4218
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

God this thread has become such aids ffs. Dgaf, not all of us want to drink 30 heinekans a night and give fluffers to all the whales while simultaneously holding a stand up comedy skit acting belligerent to "increase our edge".

Some of us actually have real stress in our lives and prefer to play poker quietly, either listening to music or simply not talking, and that's OK. But please, carry on with your blind double straddles. I miss the days when strasser and el d would text me giggling about the dumbest HH you used to post. Thank you for only tarding up one thread now
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Old 03-27-2018, 12:22 AM   #4219
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Agree with everything else you said but only to some extent. It’s hard to deny that the exceptional pros who crush the games will always be intimidating and scare off both fish and regs, no matter how genuinely nice and sociable they are. Most players aren’t oblivious or indifferent to a player who takes $$$$$ from the table on a regular basis. The whale who loves playing against intimidating but friendly crushers is the exception not the norm. Such whales also go extinct quickly due to... Darwinism.
From my experience, when I sit at a table, all the other grinders and regulars hate it, and many of them start looking for new tables to sit at. I am exactly as you describe. Very sociable and friendly with almost everyone (except the few grinders who are terrible for the game [and even then, I just ignore them mostly, i just dont socialize with them unless i feel like it]). I say hi and bye and thank you to all the dealers, smile at them, start conversations many times, dont talk strategy at the table, listen to older people tell me random stories, stay humble when i win pots, tip the dealer appropriately, help the dealers move the game along, etc. But nobody really likes me at their table. It's just human nature: the threat of danger makes people more tense and they start seeking an exit.

It's like the table just freezes up for the most part. I was just telling this to someone today: there are only a few people that like to play pots with me, and those are the gambling types, the action types, the people who just want the thrill of playing an intense poker hand with an "action" player (i open lots of pots, and they mistake selective aggressive with maniacal tendencies). They are mostly the ones who donate, and the ones I like playing pots with anyway if I had a choice. Usually, most people just play completely ABC against me, which I love, because whenever they play back I just fold.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:33 AM   #4220
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Hadn't read this in months and caught up on all posts I missed. IMO it's pretty crazy at this point to not be actively working towards the post poker plan....the 2 duel points of 1.) the overall trend of recent posts of how bad games are getting/regs improving/fish improving, as well and 2.) Why not focus the intellect that allowed you to win in poker in the first place on something else?

I assume that most to all of you has a love/hate relationship with this game like me, but I'm months into a pretty exciting new path and playing poker (online only) as a side thing and I just cannot imagine going back at this point to full time poker. I would hope it's implied but regardless I will state it, that I'm not judging anyone who is still focusing entirely on poker, and perhaps for some that's the best play; I'm just sharing my newfound perspective that I finally did do what some of you have been recommending for years, which is to make poker part time as you pursue something else and it is amazing and I highly recommend it to all. GL everyone
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:48 AM   #4221
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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From my experience, when I sit at a table, all the other grinders and regulars hate it, and many of them start looking for new tables to sit at. I am exactly as you describe. Very sociable and friendly with almost everyone (except the few grinders who are terrible for the game [and even then, I just ignore them mostly, i just dont socialize with them unless i feel like it]). I say hi and bye and thank you to all the dealers, smile at them, start conversations many times, dont talk strategy at the table, listen to older people tell me random stories, stay humble when i win pots, tip the dealer appropriately, help the dealers move the game along, etc. But nobody really likes me at their table. It's just human nature: the threat of danger makes people more tense and they start seeking an exit.

It's like the table just freezes up for the most part. I was just telling this to someone today: there are only a few people that like to play pots with me, and those are the gambling types, the action types, the people who just want the thrill of playing an intense poker hand with an "action" player (i open lots of pots, and they mistake selective aggressive with maniacal tendencies). They are mostly the ones who donate, and the ones I like playing pots with anyway if I had a choice. Usually, most people just play completely ABC against me, which I love, because whenever they play back I just fold.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.
Thanks for sharing your perspective as the friendly crusher as well. There are a couple of friendly crushers in my player pool. Pretty much no one likes having them at the table, simply because most people don’t like being put to the test. Some less reasonable folks have shown hostility towards the friendly crusher as an attempt to chase him off, in the form of talking trash behind his back, openly rooting against him in pots or making comments like “since when did you start playing on Mondays?” when they see him on Mondays. Some regs and recs have sought out coaching from the friendly crushers. But overall, the table does get more tense when the friendly crusher sits down.

However I can’t quite agree when you say that the gambling action types like playing with you. I think they simply prefer playing with aggro regs over nit regs. Nit regs are pretty much empty seats and a plague these days. They make the game excruciatingly boring. If these action degens had a choice between fellow action degens, calling stations, and other average weak non-nits, I have a feeling they would choose all of the above over the friendly crusher. The only exception is the highly competitive whale with infinite monies who wants to “play with the best”, sometimes to get some satisfaction out of “beating the pros”. Again, these whales are an extremely rare breed and don’t stick around long.

Last edited by NoExit; 03-27-2018 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 03-27-2018, 06:47 AM   #4222
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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God this thread has become such aids ffs. Dgaf, not all of us want to drink 30 heinekans a night and give fluffers to all the whales while simultaneously holding a stand up comedy skit acting belligerent to "increase our edge".

Some of us actually have real stress in our lives and prefer to play poker quietly, either listening to music or simply not talking, and that's OK. But please, carry on with your blind double straddles. I miss the days when strasser and el d would text me giggling about the dumbest HH you used to post. Thank you for only tarding up one thread now
Dude, he ain't talking to you or telling you how you should play.... If you can't understand that, not much else to say...except..stay the f out.
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Old 03-27-2018, 10:55 AM   #4223
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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God this thread has become such aids ffs. Dgaf, not all of us want to drink 30 heinekans a night and give fluffers to all the whales while simultaneously holding a stand up comedy skit acting belligerent to "increase our edge".

Some of us actually have real stress in our lives and prefer to play poker quietly, either listening to music or simply not talking, and that's OK. But please, carry on with your blind double straddles. I miss the days when strasser and el d would text me giggling about the dumbest HH you used to post. Thank you for only tarding up one thread now
Poker is bad for people. It has turned you into an angry piece of ****. Maybe find a new career? Poker is dying anyway

Your job has changed. Look at all the old timey crushers, pre poker boom. They're more DGAF than mathematician, for a reason.
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:26 PM   #4224
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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God this thread has become such aids ffs. Dgaf, not all of us want to drink 30 heinekans a night and give fluffers to all the whales while simultaneously holding a stand up comedy skit acting belligerent to "increase our edge".

Some of us actually have real stress in our lives and prefer to play poker quietly, either listening to music or simply not talking, and that's OK. But please, carry on with your blind double straddles. I miss the days when strasser and el d would text me giggling about the dumbest HH you used to post. Thank you for only tarding up one thread now
yes and a table full of people on their headphones silently playing poker makes for an awful game.nohody is saying you don't have a right to sit there saying nothing and listen to music all night. of coure you do.
if you don't care about the game being terrible that's fine, but if you do then dgaf is right.


i'd actually respect your side if it's coming from some guy just quietly blowing off steam from his work week or whatever, but it often comes from grinders playing purely to make money ruining their own games.
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Old 03-27-2018, 05:46 PM   #4225
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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God this thread has become such aids ffs. Dgaf, not all of us want to drink 30 heinekans a night and give fluffers to all the whales while simultaneously holding a stand up comedy skit acting belligerent to "increase our edge".

Some of us actually have real stress in our lives and prefer to play poker quietly, either listening to music or simply not talking, and that's OK. But please, carry on with your blind double straddles. I miss the days when strasser and el d would text me giggling about the dumbest HH you used to post. Thank you for only tarding up one thread now
Iíd like to give your the benefit of the doubt, but how you finished your post indicates you are a tool

Poker needs players that cater to gamblers, and are both respectful and fun at the table. DGAF gets it , and has skillfully explained this.

Sorry (sorta) to hear of your stress , but find another thread to troll.
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