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Old 12-10-2017, 08:06 PM   #3751
DGAF
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by Sean Snyder View Post
I read this for the first time today and it immediately reminded me of this thread and the issue of edge seekers in poker who do everything in their power to generate a winrate today, even though it'll cost them a winrate next year

A young boy enters a barber shop and the barber whispers to his customer. “This is the dumbest kid in the world. Watch while I prove it you.” The barber puts a dollar bill in one hand and two quarters in the other, then calls the boy over and asks, “Which do you want, son?” The boy takes the quarters and leaves. “What did I tell you?” said the barber. “That kid never learns!” Later, when the customer leaves, he sees the same young boy coming out of the ice cream store. “Hey, son! May I ask you a question? Why did you take the quarters instead of the dollar bill?” The boy licked his cone and replied, “Because the day I take the dollar, the game is over!”

Be like the boy
So ****ing perfect for poker. Link? I wanna know who wrote it and why/where.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:29 PM   #3752
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Interesting. What was his name?
Sean McCormack
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:05 PM   #3753
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

wow long time no see.

I've been out of the poker world for almost 3 years now, and happen to be looking up something for work and ended up back on 2p2 and lo and behold i find this thread.

Hope all of you guys are living your best lives. Also I still have some money on Party Poker that I need to get off of the site if anyone has any recommendations.

Happy Holidays everyone!
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Old 12-21-2017, 11:19 AM   #3754
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by cannabusto View Post
The brain not have been built for it, but the logical among us recognize that variance IS the reason for many things in life. In fact, it plays some role, big or small, in every outcome that isn't 100% mechanistic/deterministic, which is an extremely small percentage of outcomes.

Poker players have variance shoved in their faces, so are more apt to understand it to a degree. But variance plays just as pivotal a role in life outcomes in general, it's just more subtle. I actually have a hypothesis that political conservatives are less attuned to the power of variance/luck than liberals, which is why they are such strident believers in "hard work." I haven't figured out a way to test it yet though.
I think variance plays a far greater role in life in general. I know a guy who is an MD, a lawyer and a multimillionaire from some computer stuff. Yet, one of his slogans is, "life is a luckocracy." Not many get it to that degree.

How many poker sessions do you have?

Now, how many SOs do you have and how many critical decisions do you make regarding them?

How many jobs or interviews do you have? Or how many times do you try to start a business?

How many times does a random sperm enter a particular egg, creating your kid?

And this comes after our initial circumstances, which are already very fortunate for almost anyone posting here.

The political thing is true, but probably a bit trickier than that. I do know lots of conservatives who have either run good, or believe it is only a matter of time till they succeed. They could very well be hard working, which contributes to their success, but they can't understand that, out of the dozens of business ideas they had, only a few would succeed with any amount of work, and they just picked the right one by chance. Or, if they'd opened their pizza place at location B instead of location A, they'd have failed and never known why.

On the flipside, liberals can attribute bad results solely to bad luck, or it being someone else's fault. And they might attribute good results purely to luck or exploitation and have a reluctance to say, "maybe I can copy some things from that person getting good results and improve my own chances." Just like many poker players.

It's hard to admit our good results are largely luck. It's hard to admit that we often play a role in our bad results. Or in exacerbating them. It's ridiculous to pretend that everyone born into poverty in the US can leave it all in the dust just because some do, but also ridiculous to pretend they have no choice but to become a criminal or a terrible parent and it's 100% the fault of the more fortunate.
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Old 12-21-2017, 02:05 PM   #3755
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

That's a very good point on conservatives and variance. It's always baffled me how unable they are of objectively looking at other people's circumstances and realizing life can be really really ****ing hard. I didn't have a hard life at all, but after spending a lot of time with other's less fortunate, it's hard to imagine how anybody can believe this ludicrous notion of "just work hard and you'll get there". It's not that simple.

Last edited by YGOchamp; 12-21-2017 at 02:32 PM.
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Old 12-22-2017, 05:26 AM   #3756
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho View Post
wow long time no see.

I've been out of the poker world for almost 3 years now, and happen to be looking up something for work and ended up back on 2p2 and lo and behold i find this thread.

Hope all of you guys are living your best lives. Also I still have some money on Party Poker that I need to get off of the site if anyone has any recommendations.

Happy Holidays everyone!
pizzle,

Thanks for stopping by. If you do so again, a quick why you got out of poker and how you feel about it now (3 years later) would be very much appreciated. I am STILL trying to get out.

---

I'm sure most won't recognize his sn, but one of the best poker minds on 2p2 back in the day- and something told him to gtfo...
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Old 12-29-2017, 03:49 PM   #3757
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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pizzle,

Thanks for stopping by. If you do so again, a quick why you got out of poker and how you feel about it now (3 years later) would be very much appreciated. I am STILL trying to get out.

---

I'm sure most won't recognize his sn, but one of the best poker minds on 2p2 back in the day- and something told him to gtfo...
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/the...-not-thoughts/

the last few posts there will cover a lot of it.

But long story short, I had a 12 month run of just awful variance, combined with noticing that I was losing my passion for the game while the market for a poker player kept getting worse and worse. I had looked at other career options for awhile, but finally found something I wanted to throw myself at, and I got the job and just moved on.

I currently work in Marketing Analytics for a daily fantasy sports company, and have had a lot of success in the last 3 years. I would say the work here is equally as hard as poker, but different in a lot of ways.

Like the it's harder on my work life balance because I'm a grinder and will put in +60 hour weeks every week. But the upside is promotions, responsibility, and being able to work on cool projects that keep things rewarding. And doors are constantly opening for me. On the down side it's tough to take care of myself mentally and physically in ways that I did when I played poker, because those were literal necessities to have success in the profession. you can't be playing your A game if you don't get sleep, take care of your mental health, and keep your body in reasonable shape. and with poker you can bend your schedule around the needs of your life, health, etc. By comparison, you can grind 60 hours in an office on limited sleep because a lot of the success is accomplished through excellent communication and setting up logical frameworks for problem solving. The first is a personal strength of mine, and the second is something I honed over 7 years playing professionally.

On the flip side of that, the stress is different in this job because I know I'm getting paid every two weeks. And I know if something went wrong here I could get another job in literally days (or less) if I wanted to because my resume is strong now. There are no downswings here lol.

So overall I got out because it was the right thing for me. I definitely miss poker and I miss that life style and I miss being out there on my own only accountable to myself. But I'm much happier working with a team to build something in a more stable situation (although we're a start up so most people would still think everything is crazy around here, but compared to poker this is waaaay more routine).

I still live in Boston though, so when the new poker room opens up with the new casino I may have to start sharpening my game to go grind some live sessions. I'd also like to just play some more in general in 2018 as I miss the mental challenge and just miss the game at times.

Hope you're doing great and feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk about life or poker. I'm happy to chat about either all the time.

Happy Holidays and let's all hope we have a great 2018!
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Old 12-30-2017, 01:34 AM   #3758
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho View Post
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/the...-not-thoughts/

the last few posts there will cover a lot of it.

But long story short, I had a 12 month run of just awful variance, combined with noticing that I was losing my passion for the game while the market for a poker player kept getting worse and worse. I had looked at other career options for awhile, but finally found something I wanted to throw myself at, and I got the job and just moved on.

I currently work in Marketing Analytics for a daily fantasy sports company, and have had a lot of success in the last 3 years. I would say the work here is equally as hard as poker, but different in a lot of ways.

Like the it's harder on my work life balance because I'm a grinder and will put in +60 hour weeks every week. But the upside is promotions, responsibility, and being able to work on cool projects that keep things rewarding. And doors are constantly opening for me. On the down side it's tough to take care of myself mentally and physically in ways that I did when I played poker, because those were literal necessities to have success in the profession. you can't be playing your A game if you don't get sleep, take care of your mental health, and keep your body in reasonable shape. and with poker you can bend your schedule around the needs of your life, health, etc. By comparison, you can grind 60 hours in an office on limited sleep because a lot of the success is accomplished through excellent communication and setting up logical frameworks for problem solving. The first is a personal strength of mine, and the second is something I honed over 7 years playing professionally.

On the flip side of that, the stress is different in this job because I know I'm getting paid every two weeks. And I know if something went wrong here I could get another job in literally days (or less) if I wanted to because my resume is strong now. There are no downswings here lol.

So overall I got out because it was the right thing for me. I definitely miss poker and I miss that life style and I miss being out there on my own only accountable to myself. But I'm much happier working with a team to build something in a more stable situation (although we're a start up so most people would still think everything is crazy around here, but compared to poker this is waaaay more routine).

I still live in Boston though, so when the new poker room opens up with the new casino I may have to start sharpening my game to go grind some live sessions. I'd also like to just play some more in general in 2018 as I miss the mental challenge and just miss the game at times.

Hope you're doing great and feel free to PM me anytime if you want to talk about life or poker. I'm happy to chat about either all the time.

Happy Holidays and let's all hope we have a great 2018!
Amazing contribution/addition to this thread. Thanks for taking the time...

“Not winning at SD” under your location on here has been rattling around my brain for years now lol. I ****ing feel that for sure (and I see the image of it often in my mind). 2017 for me was likely similar to the year that got you out...

Congrats on getting out and crushing in a new arena. Start working on that balance of life ASAP though imo. Smart people like you can fade their nature if they try hard enough...

Cheers/Happy New Year
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:08 PM   #3759
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

[QUOTE=thepizzlefosho;53290390]http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/the...-not-thoughts/

the last few posts there will cover a lot of it. QUOTE]

The "Mighty Jim thoughts" are some of the most insightful posts on poker I've ever seen. Although they come from an online vantage point most of it is absolutely applicable to live play.
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Old 01-02-2018, 01:56 PM   #3760
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Sigh, just when I was thinking that it might be time to wrap up my poker forum(s) membership(s) because I'm not gaining anything in recent years, time waster, tilt-inducer...jrr63 convinces me to click a link, and I'm sucked back in all over again.

THANKS
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:08 PM   #3761
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Yah that’s good stuff thanks for sharing
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Old 01-05-2018, 05:24 PM   #3762
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Sigh, just when I was thinking that it might be time to wrap up my poker forum(s) membership(s) because I'm not gaining anything in recent years, time waster, tilt-inducer...jrr63 convinces me to click a link, and I'm sucked back in all over again.

THANKS
I can't help but laugh at anyone who thinks a 95k hand downswing is anything to feel bad about/ throw a pity party over. anyone who thinks otherwise has run extremely hot and or has no ****ing idea about variance. I'm sorry but that's like what... 2 months of grinding online? It makes me question what most posters think what "running bad" actually is. It's just one more reason towards how most "crushers" are absolute morons and how stupid it is to gamble/ play poker for a living.

I mean I appreciate people who post/ share their poker experiences but I can't help but think how well they've run up to this point to finally realize how brutal it can be.

Edit: I'm not ignorant to how slow live poker can be/ how downswings can be seemingly "endless"... I'm just bewildered at how poker players who have been around for so long are finally realizing what giant crap shoot poker/ gambling is (even if you seem to know what you're doing)

Last edited by upswinging; 01-05-2018 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:27 PM   #3763
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

[QUOTE=jrr63;53293110]
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepizzlefosho View Post
http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/the...-not-thoughts/

the last few posts there will cover a lot of it. QUOTE]

The "Mighty Jim thoughts" are some of the most insightful posts on poker I've ever seen. Although they come from an online vantage point most of it is absolutely applicable to live play.
Wow. Thanks. Good, honest **** in that thread.
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Old 01-06-2018, 07:46 PM   #3764
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2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I think most players do appreciate variance generally but fail to consider how significant single sessions/hands could be in a players career. Vast majority of us will run neutral EVish but scheduling your abyss trip the same time you try to move up in stakes is a career defining moment honestly.

Id bet a decent amount that I’ve run bad overall in bb terms but hot in $$$ terms
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Old 01-06-2018, 08:22 PM   #3765
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I can't help but laugh at anyone who thinks a 95k hand downswing is anything to feel bad about/ throw a pity party over. anyone who thinks otherwise has run extremely hot and or has no ****ing idea about variance. I'm sorry but that's like what... 2 months of grinding online? It makes me question what most posters think what "running bad" actually is. It's just one more reason towards how most "crushers" are absolute morons and how stupid it is to gamble/ play poker for a living.

I mean I appreciate people who post/ share their poker experiences but I can't help but think how well they've run up to this point to finally realize how brutal it can be.

Edit: I'm not ignorant to how slow live poker can be/ how downswings can be seemingly "endless"... I'm just bewildered at how poker players who have been around for so long are finally realizing what giant crap shoot poker/ gambling is (even if you seem to know what you're doing)
Variance in poker in 2018 > variance in poker in 2017 > variance in poker in 2016...

Also, it IS mind-blowing when you lose most your 80/20's for an entire year/you win zero of your 30/70s/you are on the wrong side of almost every cooler/you whiff almost every important flop/etc.

I don't think all crushers are morons (NEC). I don't even think gambling for a living is dumb for everyone (strictly trying to play live poker forever is ill-advised though).

The human brain just isn't robotic enough to understand variance (both ways)- ESPECIALLY when you are in the thick of it/you gamble for a living. We have emotions (pride, guilt, optimism, pessimism, etc), and perception is reality for all of us<-- those 2 things make it nearly impossible for those in the poker world to truly grasp variance...

I just had my first losing year (I lost overall what I lost in one pot as a 98/2). I have averaged a doctor's salary since the boom/I am up over 200k big blinds overall and won over 25k big blinds in 2016. And I have to FORCE myself to keep playing (because I need to make money and I know I'm a huge favorite despite never holding/binking/whatever). I know I'm not playing my best right now because I have zero momentum/subconscious confidence in the cards. I also know all that changes with a few upward turns in variance--> I'll be right back to being the biggest lightning math, creative/strategic AF, subtle acting, downright autistic soul-reader at the table.

I know zero of my friends (even the smart poker pros) truly appreciate my anomalous run. They think the things I do (the same things that I have always done/others currently crushing still do) are the reason. They see me lose ANOTHER big all in (I don't show the AxQ that I depolarized like crazy vs the first to table Ax2 on the A94xT2x) and storm off and they start to think, "IDK, maybe the game has passed him by."

I have a highly intelligent friend (who will read this) who has been playing forever and we were discussing his friend who was buried in 2-5 in 2016 (COULD NOT WIN) who is now crushing the biggest games at Bellagio daily. He told me "___ put a lot of work in. He is VERY good."

I know this girl who couldn't win a month ago and was looking for any way out. She was game selecting 2-5 and what not... I saw her the other day and she is up _ _ _ k in the last month and sits in bad 5-10 games just to relax and have a beer before bed. I love her and root for and am way happy for her, but you know what her explanation was after she told me all these hands/situations I haven't had in over a year?

"I'm just blessed to be a woman. People can't fold to me."

Well yeah, but weren't you also a woman before? And people can't fold to me either ftr. Happy for you though...

I have asked 2 people to stake me for a game that opens up another income door for me. Both can afford it, already gamble, know I'm trustworthy, etc. Both have said they'd rather loan me money lol. Neither are morons. Both are very smart actually. They just don't understand variance- just like (almost) everyone else in the world.

I think what pizzle did was awesome. He did it for himself and for the community. He is smart AF. He's just human.
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Old 01-06-2018, 09:24 PM   #3766
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Also, https://soundcloud.com/bettybizet/th...gs/sets/poker2
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Old 01-07-2018, 12:51 AM   #3767
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Thank you for sharing that you had a losing year. Seriously. I'm so phucking sick of seeing crypto/lambo/stacks on stacks on stacks threads from 22 year old emotionally autistic virgins.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:00 AM   #3768
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2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Speaking of crypto, I’m hoping he bubble can hold on for a few months bc I’m anticipating cash games during WSOP will be absolutely bananas

I’m already starting to see bigger games running with ppl putting their crypto profits into play
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:29 PM   #3769
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

One thing that i’ve started noticing is how often i walk across roulette boards with 15+ of one color. That made me appreciate how sick randomness and variance really is.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:37 PM   #3770
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia View Post
Thank you for sharing that you had a losing year. Seriously. I'm so phucking sick of seeing crypto/lambo/stacks on stacks on stacks threads from 22 year old emotionally autistic virgins.
My optimistic, empowered (a la “one will improve their well-being through dedication to improving their mind, work, body, relationships with others, etc while minimizing concern on s*** out of your control) outlook is more than tired and seemingly unpopular in this thread.

But f*** if the quoted statement above isn’t the exact opposite of how I want to live my life. Being genuinely happy for others goes hand in hand with treating people with kindness, respect, etc imo. Cheering against others whose only crime is being young and wealthy seems like a tough way to live.

If people want to be real (and thus dark af) regarding variance, fine. Regarding many people in the poker community (not dissimilar from most industries), fine.

Some people might derive the most good from DGAFs occasional recommendations regarding improving one’s mindset, eliminating cognitive distortions, coming to terms w s*** from childhood, etc, as opposed to just chiming in that they too hate everyone and everything. I think this to some extent misses the most important point of this incredibly valuable thread-to try to make the games better.

When people are truly under financial strain, obviously that is unbelievably stressful as a professional gambler. But if someone has six figures in liquidity and is fantasizing about punching some kid in the face because he momentarily won 5 flips in a row or bought crypto last year (same difference), he may consider looking inward instead.

For me personally, my happiness curve has always had very little correlation to my net worth curve. I have been both wealthy and deeply depressed at many times in my life. The dedication to improving the little f***er between my ears has always been the key to finding greater peace.

Last edited by gman06; 01-07-2018 at 01:43 PM.
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Old 01-07-2018, 01:43 PM   #3771
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

That's not what I was saying at all.

A more politically correct way of saying it is "I came to 2p2 for a shared strategy community, but have since learned the results are extremely curved to the positive by confirmation bias, and therefore I enjoy seeing the non-sunrunning posts that show the other side of variance, as rare as they are.

I like the way I said it the first time though.
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Old 01-07-2018, 04:21 PM   #3772
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
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Thank you for sharing that you had a losing year. Seriously. I'm so phucking sick of seeing crypto/lambo/stacks on stacks on stacks threads from 22 year old emotionally autistic virgins.
I always said it was impossible I would have a losing year. In hindsight, that was pretty dumb considering how often I've written about that guy who was the very best I played against at the time and still top 10 I've ever played against who went from a 1 mill/year win rate (for a couple years) to not being able to win in any game, sleeping on my couch, then out of poker- back in '09.

While I had made visits to The Abyss (real extended trips, not just glimpses) I wasn't appreciating the fact that you can stay there for an entire year- or more. Life down there (here) is so unreal that you legit turn your sessions into repressed memories so that you can play again without flinching every time the dealer throws a card at you...

Here is my session from last night- a very standard session for me for over a year now (and then I'm gonna repress it so i can play again in a few days)...

I find this amazing travel back in time 5-10 game where people are limping 100% of hands, discussing the most results oriented level .8 strat across the table etc (this isn't the standard part, just very good news). I sit down and within 5 minutes decide who I'm going to squeeze pre against (for value). One of these dudes limps lp like usual and I pop to 60 with A6. The flop comes QT9 check, check. Turn 2 I check and he bombs and shows 22 as I fold. Good, I got the old make a set vs my squeeze out of my way.

I squeeze a few more times and find better flops (I never make a pair but I consider this running above expectation and I'm winning). I raise with QT and use live tells/soul reads to delay cbet A922 and take it down (there is a reasonable chance I had the best hand but I wouldn't have been able to protect it had they not been tell boxes and me not an lol live pro).

This terrible old tight but sticky player who knows me/thinks I'm crazy and loose opens UTG to 40. A short stack in mp pops to 100 (he has like 100 left). I call from the BB with AA. Opener flats (dammit) and the flop is K93r. I check, opener bets 200, short stack ships, I suck my cheeks in as much as possible, take a sip from my beer and call<--- the only thing you can do when you can't rep a draw or a bluff-catcher lol. Turn is a rag and I lead 200 (I only started the hand with like 1350/this is the best way to get it all in imo/when in Rome). The old man snap makes it 600. I ship my 250 more (in hindsight I suppose I should have flatted). My friend behind me says I wish you had 99 instead of KQ suited. <-- he hasn't seen my cards and we both think villain has AK. River is a K and villain scoops with KJ suited. Good, got my first buyin/the inevitable 90/10 I was going to lose out of the way.

Old man racks up and leaves as I call for chips...

I open a few times and get 3b huge by the narrowest of ranges. FOLD. I do stack a guy with 200 after doubling him up from 100 to 200 (and getting unnecessarily slow-rolled). Now the guy who bombed with his 222 the first hand I played opens to 50 and I call with JT in the co and as expected it's multiway. T63r and he cbets 140 into 200. I call as does a sticky player behind me. Turn J and he bets 340. I have 700 or so behind and no draws to rep. I call and the other guy folds (please don't pair the board with a 6 or 3). River K and guy puts me all in. I snap and he has AQ. Good, got the second buyin out of the way- and another 90/10.

AQ guy racks up and leaves as I call for chips...

My 3rd buyin I flop a set with KK on AKJ and they all immediately fold. I have momentum/street cred now though (I showed the KK obv) and start picking up pots. I double up the short stack slow roller again in a flip situation. I whiff a few flops in big multiway pots and then I bink a set with 22 on A92ddd in a 3-way pot. I check raise flop, he calls. I lead the turn 8x, he calls. River is the 6d. I check and he checks. I turn over my set and he shakes his head because he can't beat it. Sucks the diamond came, but at least I won the big pot.

Then he realizes the A of his AK is actually the Ad... I'm short-stacked now and get AK in a multiway great squeeze spot and ship all in. The slow roller snap calls. It runs out QQJA2. I turn over my hand and we wait. After much consideration/looking at the board, the slow roller says, "Oh, I have a queen" and he turns over QT.

Buyin #4: I 10x some goofy guy that limps his bad hands and pops his good ones (that's actually pretty logical if you think about it ). I have Ax and it comes A83cc. I check/fish lip call a big bet. Turn 3. Same action. River Ac. same action. He has A8 and starts chirping his brains out as he goes to grab racks...

Buyin #5 is mostly just miss and fold get dwindled down in the current state of poker where you can't win without the best hand type stuff. Eventually I'm a short-stack and ship in a 75-way pot with 22 (the opener was the A8 guy still racking and yapping so I knew he wan't going to gamble). Everyone folds except for the slow roller. The flop comes 662. I turn over my 22 and all the fish and my friend and even the dealer I think congratulate me on finally winning some dumb pot. The slow roller turn over AA lol. I immediately start to stand up when I see this. Before I can even grab my jacket it comes A,x.

I pay the tab (I lost that flip obv) and drive off into the night...

---

It is very possible to have a losing year if ^^^ is your standard session. It has been my standard session for like 14 months now. I think most people are too sane to keep putting themselves through it, and therefore I believe I likely win the prize for running the worst for an entire year+.

Crown me.
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Old 01-07-2018, 05:21 PM   #3773
DGAF
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gman06 View Post
My optimistic, empowered (a la “one will improve their well-being through dedication to improving their mind, work, body, relationships with others, etc while minimizing concern on s*** out of your control) outlook is more than tired and seemingly unpopular in this thread.

Please expand upon this... I tend to think this thread is all about cutting through all the bull****, exposing the real, and then trying to make the best of it. The very best thing any professional poker player can do to empower themselves is start working on their exit strategy NOW<-- I believe that to an incredible extent. That's why I belabor the **** out of it itt. And just as kids don't learn to drive safer/less drunk until they are forced to watch "Red Asphalt" or whatever, poker players on heaters don't even begin to understand the need to do something else until they read my thread and others like it- or until it's all but too late/they've found The Abyss themselves.


But f*** if the quoted statement above isn’t the exact opposite of how I want to live my life. Being genuinely happy for others goes hand in hand with treating people with kindness, respect, etc imo. Cheering against others whose only crime is being young and wealthy seems like a tough way to live.

Neither of those things are a crime. Being braggadocios, smug, results oriented, greedy, non-communal, etc are their "crimes". They can have all the money- and the little else that comes with it, but no one has to respect them much less like them given their absence of humility and awareness.

If people want to be real (and thus dark af) regarding variance, fine. Regarding many people in the poker community (not dissimilar from most industries), fine.

I don't understand this really, but if real is dark af I'd rather see it for what it is and then try to brighten it.

Some people might derive the most good from DGAFs occasional recommendations regarding improving one’s mindset, eliminating cognitive distortions, coming to terms w s*** from childhood, etc, as opposed to just chiming in that they too hate everyone and everything. I think this to some extent misses the most important point of this incredibly valuable thread-to try to make the games better.

With regards to the bold, what? I hate everyone and everything?

I 100% agree that being a hater isn't productive. Offering wisdom and experiences and different views and empathy and respect and all that is way better. Having said that, I honestly didn't see Avaritia's post as much more than a quick vent. Then again, I have the benefit of knowing he is a very well-rounded, highly contributing poster overall.


Much of this thread is to try to make games better. No one is going to do that though if they don't first understand why it's important...

This thread is also about life. It evolved from insights into the game of poker into insights into the games of poker and life imo. Most of my contributions these days come in my blog, but this thread is still very active because of great and generous posters (like when you went in the well), and at the very least it's an incredible resource for those ready to learn the real about poker- and now about life. The poster who came in who lost his wife, the poster who teaches inner city kids and fights the system daily, the poster who is super successful in business and acknowledges all the run-good that got him there, they all took the thread from something small to something much bigger imo.


When people are truly under financial strain, obviously that is unbelievably stressful as a professional gambler. But if someone has six figures in liquidity and is fantasizing about punching some kid in the face because he momentarily won 5 flips in a row or bought crypto last year (same difference), he may consider looking inward instead.

For me personally, my happiness curve has always had very little correlation to my net worth curve. I have been both wealthy and deeply depressed at many times in my life. The dedication to improving the little f***er between my ears has always been the key to finding greater peace.
The bold is most important. Wealth =/= happiness (even though poverty can = unhappiness). I'm fine seeing people think their lives got way better because they went from a secure financial situation to one of abundance. I know they did not. Inner peace/happiness comes from other things. For you it comes from working on yourself. For me it comes from that too, but more so from making connections and helping others.

Hating brings no one inner peace. I just don't think that little 3-sentence rant was really hating. But as mentioned, he has posting street cred with me. Lastly, obv it would be impossible for me to take it personally because I am the opposite of all those things- I realize the potential bias there.


I'm blue.
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Old 01-07-2018, 07:35 PM   #3774
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Comments in red, sorry I suck at 2+2 posting logistics

Originally Posted by gman06:
My optimistic, empowered (a la “one will improve their well-being through dedication to improving their mind, work, body, relationships with others, etc while minimizing concern on s*** out of your control) outlook is more than tired and seemingly unpopular in this thread.

Please expand upon this... I tend to think this thread is all about cutting through all the bull****, exposing the real, and then trying to make the best of it. The very best thing any professional poker player can do to empower themselves is start working on their exit strategy NOW<-- I believe that to an incredible extent. That's why I belabor the **** out of it itt. And just as kids don't learn to drive safer/less drunk until they are forced to watch "Red Asphalt" or whatever, poker players on heaters don't even begin to understand the need to do something else until they read my thread and others like it- or until it's all but too late/they've found The Abyss themselves.

Agreed fully that some combination of exit/contingency/actually GTFO right now plans are the some of best advice any poker player can get, where almost all pros should lean aggressively toward the "quit right motherf***ing now" group.

But f*** if the quoted statement above isn’t the exact opposite of how I want to live my life. Being genuinely happy for others goes hand in hand with treating people with kindness, respect, etc imo. Cheering against others whose only crime is being young and wealthy seems like a tough way to live.

Neither of those things are a crime. Being braggadocios, smug, results oriented, greedy, non-communal, etc are their "crimes". They can have all the money- and the little else that comes with it, but no one has to respect them much less like them given their absence of humility and awareness.

Obviously I'm not a fan of any of those character attributes, but I try to deal w/ a braggadocious/smug up and comer by asking "What can I improve upon in myself to not let this kid's existence affect me." This concept of looking inward is just one of an infinite number of ways I've found to improve my quality of life while playing poker and to a large extent away from the tables as well.

But absolutely when someone is doing something to hurt the games, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop it. My point was simply to, in a general sense, say I prefer to cheer for as opposed to against others within reason, something I'm sure we agree on.


If people want to be real (and thus dark af) regarding variance, fine. Regarding many people in the poker community (not dissimilar from most industries), fine.

I don't understand this really, but if real is dark af I'd rather see it for what it is and then try to brighten it.

Absolutely. The truth regarding variance is dark. The truth regarding the character of certain people is dark. The truth regarding whether most people should continue playing poker is dark.

Some people might derive the most good from DGAFs occasional recommendations regarding improving one’s mindset, eliminating cognitive distortions, coming to terms w s*** from childhood, etc, as opposed to just chiming in that they too hate everyone and everything. I think this to some extent misses the most important point of this incredibly valuable thread-to try to make the games better.

With regards to the bold, what? I hate everyone and everything?

I 100% agree that being a hater isn't productive. Offering wisdom and experiences and different views and empathy and respect and all that is way better. Having said that, I honestly didn't see Avaritia's post as much more than a quick vent. Then again, I have the benefit of knowing he is a very well-rounded, highly contributing poster overall.

Much of this thread is to try to make games better. No one is going to do that though if they don't first understand why it's important...

This thread is also about life. It evolved from insights into the game of poker into insights into the games of poker and life imo. Most of my contributions these days come in my blog, but this thread is still very active because of great and generous posters (like when you went in the well), and at the very least it's an incredible resource for those ready to learn the real about poker- and now about life. The poster who came in who lost his wife, the poster who teaches inner city kids and fights the system daily, the poster who is super successful in business and acknowledges all the run-good that got him there, they all took the thread from something small to something much bigger imo.


The post was never directed toward you or anyone in particular. I do think there is a good bit of unnecessary negativity in the thread (not from you, your posts are always gold/interesting/constructive even if depressing at times). To be clear, my paragraph above should read that many poker players might be helping themselves out by working out their issues/distortions/etc just as you sometimes advocate in your posts. That occasionally I read posts from others (not you) that come across as whiny instead of empowered. And although I love a good whine myself sometimes, I usually feel better instead after answering "What actionable step(s) can I take to resolve this problem."

I once had a talk with a real estate mogul who said something that still sticks with me. He told me, "I've never been accused of being the smartest man in the room, but I've always prided myself on being the best at getting bad news. I've built my career out of fixing problems."

I was probably too hard on Avartia. And I fully agree, I have learned so much from this thread about so many aspects of poker, people, and life. You have build a beautiful thing here DGAF, and you have helped a great many people, myself included. As connection/philanthropy are critical to your well-being (couldn't agree more), give yourself a ton of credit for accomplishing that in an industry where it's quite uncommon.


When people are truly under financial strain, obviously that is unbelievably stressful as a professional gambler. But if someone has six figures in liquidity and is fantasizing about punching some kid in the face because he momentarily won 5 flips in a row or bought crypto last year (same difference), he may consider looking inward instead.

For me personally, my happiness curve has always had very little correlation to my net worth curve. I have been both wealthy and deeply depressed at many times in my life. The dedication to improving the little f***er between my ears has always been the key to finding greater peace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DGAF View Post
The bold is most important. Wealth =/= happiness (even though poverty can = unhappiness). I'm fine seeing people think their lives got way better because they went from a secure financial situation to one of abundance. I know they did not. Inner peace/happiness comes from other things. For you it comes from working on yourself. For me it comes from that too, but more so from making connections and helping others.

Hating brings no one inner peace. I just don't think that little 3-sentence rant was really hating. But as mentioned, he has posting street cred with me. Lastly, obv it would be impossible for me to take it personally because I am the opposite of all those things- I realize the potential bias there.


I'm blue.
Well said. I always feel for poker players who come to me and say, "Once I get $x, (with x being anywhere from 100k-10M, lol at the range I hear), I'm quitting poker for good." When I then ask about what will be next, the answer is almost always some combination of: "Not sure yet, but I'll be rich then and I'll figure it out, everything will be good." It breaks my heart.
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Old 01-07-2018, 09:19 PM   #3775
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I get what you're saying DGAF. Variance can be just too big/ complicated to get a grip on regardless of intelligence. However, I tend to think the only smart pros are the ones who have left poker before they went out in a ball of flames/ huge downswing. The rest ARE morons who have simply just gotten very good at one specific game.

Doesn't matter if it's 2/5 5/T or if it's 50/100 on LATB. Of course that all changes if you're extremely happy being a pro poker player and you love you life despite all the negatives. But then again, multiple posters have said playing poker is one of the worst jobs ever... but that doesn't mean it's not possible for someone to love it forever I guess...
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