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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 02-12-2017, 11:16 PM   #3201
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

It is funner, but you are probably seeing a little over half as many hands per hour. The dream live poker future culture scenario would be widespread adoption of 8 game mix. The only way I could see that happening is if ESPN would only play footage from The 50k Poker Players Championship every year. It would also mean 8 handed max tables.
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Old 02-12-2017, 11:22 PM   #3202
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

gl trying to bring in a stable income from live plo unless you have access to constant streams of really awful players that are pure donating
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:10 AM   #3203
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

the really awful/really good ratio is 5 time higher in plo than in nl holdem ime
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:12 AM   #3204
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Full ring PLO seems like a terrible game in that whoever manages to make the nuts over and over gets to win and whoever doesn't gets to lose.
uhhhh no
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:44 AM   #3205
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I'd love to see uncapped pot limit holdem come back - that was THE game most places I frequented before the "boom" and the advent of capped NLH games.
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:39 AM   #3206
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I'd love to see uncapped pot limit holdem come back - that was THE game most places I frequented before the "boom" and the advent of capped NLH games.
Pot limit holdem could actually be really good. Removal of the ability to overbet greatly restricts the way a hand can unfold. A player can't 3bet preflop, bet 1/3rd pot on flop, 1/2 pot on turn and then jam 1.2x+ pot on river to get 120+bb stacks in, or something like 3bet preflop, 1/2 pot flop, check/check turn action, and then overbet 2x pot on river to get 100bb stacks in. These are just two of many common overbetting scenarios, and being forced into a maximum pot size wager can cause pretty dynamic shifts in range construction with the overall result being that ranges will typically be less polarized, which generally means that bad players won't get punished as severely for their poor decisions.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:31 AM   #3207
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
It is funner, but you are probably seeing a little over half as many hands per hour. The dream live poker future culture scenario would be widespread adoption of 8 game mix. The only way I could see that happening is if ESPN would only play footage from The 50k Poker Players Championship every year. It would also mean 8 handed max tables.
i think you get about 2/3rd the hands unless the hold em game is really awful.
but the players are much much worse than in hold em.

the it's fun part also matters since i can play plo for 12-16 hours with no problem but more than 2-3 hours of hold em is mind numbingly boring.
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Old 02-13-2017, 05:35 AM   #3208
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Pot limit holdem could actually be really good. Removal of the ability to overbet greatly restricts the way a hand can unfold. A player can't 3bet preflop, bet 1/3rd pot on flop, 1/2 pot on turn and then jam 1.2x+ pot on river to get 120+bb stacks in, or something like 3bet preflop, 1/2 pot flop, check/check turn action, and then overbet 2x pot on river to get 100bb stacks in. These are just two of many common overbetting scenarios, and being forced into a maximum pot size wager can cause pretty dynamic shifts in range construction with the overall result being that ranges will typically be less polarized, which generally means that bad players won't get punished as severely for their poor decisions.
yawn. they can bet a drop higher on the flop and turn and it won't make one bit of difference in the long run as far as the expectation of the hand or more importantly the health of the game.

at least use deep stack nlhe as an example of why pot limit hold em can be a better game not 100-120 blind snooze poker.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:34 AM   #3209
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

The range that wants to bet 1/3, 1/2, 1.2x to get 120bb in isn't the same as the one that wants to bet 2/3, 2/3, 3/4 to get 120bb in. The latter line is effectively never going to be even close to optimal for a well constructed range, though it can certainly work fine against poor opposition. Regardless, it's obvious what I'm getting at. Even at 100-120bb there is an obvious difference in options available to you in no limit versus pot limit, and this becomes even more dramatic at 200+ blind stack depths.

And agreed that the action in the average plo game is absolutely no comparison to the average no limit holdem game. You can walk into just about any casino anywhere and the majority of players in a $5 or $10 blind no limit game will actively be trying to not play terribly. I've never sat in a live PLO game that was even remotely tough whether the blind was $2 or $200.

Last edited by Sean Snyder; 02-13-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:34 PM   #3210
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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The range that wants to bet 1/3, 1/2, 1.2x to get 120bb in isn't the same as the one that wants to bet 2/3, 2/3, 3/4 to get 120bb in. The latter line is effectively never going to be even close to optimal for a well constructed range, though it can certainly work fine against poor opposition. Regardless, it's obvious what I'm getting at. Even at 100-120bb there is an obvious difference in options available to you in no limit versus pot limit, and this becomes even more dramatic at 200+ blind stack depths.

And agreed that the action in the average plo game is absolutely no comparison to the average no limit holdem game. You can walk into just about any casino anywhere and the majority of players in a $5 or $10 blind no limit game will actively be trying to not play terribly. I've never sat in a live PLO game that was even remotely tough whether the blind was $2 or $200.
those aren't the only options when you bet
the game isn't changing bc someone bets 38 pct of pot instead of 33 pct etc. and by change i mean significantly change not some marginal difference in expected ev which is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.that's not bringing in any extra players.

100 blind nl and 100 blind pot limit hold em is basically the same game the way the game plays 99 pct of the time. it's gonna take a lot more than switching from nl to pl hold em to gave the game not resemble watching paint dry.

Last edited by borg23; 02-13-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:34 PM   #3211
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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Originally Posted by A_C_Slater View Post
Full ring PLO seems like a terrible game in that whoever manages to make the nuts over and over gets to win and whoever doesn't gets to lose.
A+

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gl trying to bring in a stable income from live plo unless you have access to constant streams of really awful players that are pure donating
That's every live plo game in the country friend
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:39 PM   #3212
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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those aren't the only options when you bet
the game isn't changing bc someone bets 38 pct of pot instead of 33 pct etc. and by change i mean significantly change not some marginal difference in expected ev which is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.that's not bringing in any extra players.

100 blind nl and 100 blind pot limit hold em is basically the same game the way the game plays 99 pct of the time. it's gonna take a lot more than switching from nl to pl hold em to gave the game not resemble watching paint dry.
If it's 100bb cap, I agree not much difference. The old time PLH games were all uncapped. Even the first internet version of PLH I ever played - at CCCPoker - was 1-2 PLH uncapped. A very lucrative game it was too.
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Old 02-13-2017, 02:57 PM   #3213
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Thread going downhill fast. Keep getting duped thinking the thread has been updated by DGAF.

DGAF, drop that poast!!!
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Old 02-14-2017, 02:08 AM   #3214
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I'd love to hear DGAF's thoughts on the YouTube poker vlog guys
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Old 02-14-2017, 04:28 AM   #3215
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

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I'd love to hear DGAF's thoughts on the YouTube poker vlog guys
Here I will save you the time. He would take them all out back of the Bellagio and let them talk about their hands from that evening. Then he would open fire on them like the gangsta he is straight outta the No side of Oside.
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #3216
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

The Real Thing

Listen, here's the real thing... If you can’t spot the human being in your first half hour at the table…

It’s not the new pro in the 1 seat who never says a word or makes a facial expression or plays a hand- he’s a robot obv... And it’s not the new pro in the 2 seat who actually plays hands and talks but it’s all stock moves and comments- he’s clearly a robot too, just a slightly more advanced model than seat 1… It’s def not the also new, but already famous/highly feared pro (because he binked a couple tournaments obv) in the 3 seat who buys in for 5x everyone else and takes forever on every decision and stares people down/unknowingly actually breaks games because of his antics- no human being could be that self-absorbed obv… It’s not the new pro in the 4 seat either who’s face permanently looks like he just took a sip of day old coffee and who ALWAYS 3bets vs a wide range and never even thinks about the whale in 5 who will play any hand for one raise but actually hand selects for two raises/is the ONLY reason the game is even going- that kind of predictable, unaware behavior is the telltale sign of a robot actually… You aren’t even certain the whale in 5 is human either. The **** he says about women and democrats and black people and how much money/how many planes he has- and the way he does it all with a proud little smile while getting best-handed (except when seat 4 vpips obv!) for thousands an hour while the few speaking robots at the table jerk him off conversationally, all that doesn’t add up to him really being a human being either (at least not the one on the far right of the evolution chart)… The super young looking face in the 6 seat who is way over his head at these stakes, who constantly gets exploited/misses value and who actually does seem to show a little emotion from time to time, he kinda seems human- except he wins HEAPS every session because he turns over the most incredible hands in the most incredible situations→ obv he is a robot too because he’s clearly in “God Mode”, and that’s video game ****/not real life ****/he was def been built and programmed by some genius poker hacker somewhere… The 7 seat has been in “God Mode” for 3 ****ing years! And now he never makes a mistake in a hand. It’s very surprising floor even lets him play at this point. He’s the only other pro at the table who isn’t new, and you can actually talk to him and not cringe, but he’s so obv A.I./”God Moded” with the hands he turns over it’s crazy… 8 is just the nastiest. This female robot says the most passive aggressive bat **** crazy stuff to anyone and everyone she loses a hand to. You would def call her an “ugly human being”- IF SHE DIDN’T DIAL UP AA EVERY SINGLE TIME SHE WAS ON TILT AND 100 BIGS DEEP AND IN THE PERFECT SQUEEZE SPOT VS YOUR AK SUITED AND EVERYONE ELSE’S WHATEVER. No human can control the cards like that obv…

Back to the point… If you can’t spot the human being in your first half hour at the table (you are in the 9 seat and stuck a cool 4k already- like you always are at this point, because you just doubled up the fem bot in 8 with her rockets, just like you did yesterday, and the day before, and the day before that), and your blood is already starting to boil, and you are already starting to muck your cards a little too hard like an entitled little douche- because you can feel the curse monkey digging his claws into your shoulders/you KNOW the rest of your session is going to be variance misery and a huge financial hit- but you can’t pick up because you aren’t an idiot/curses aren’t real (or are they?) and poker is your job/it’s how you put a roof over your kids’ heads, food in their mouths, clothes on their bodies, shoes on their feet, bikes in their garage, tuition in their schools, and so on…

You have been in the game too long.

---

The island you realized you were on a few years into your career has finally gotten a little too small- and the tides continue to rise/the shores continue to erode. There are more and more robots redlining their boats all around you everyday, creating huge wakes, polluting the water with gasoline, driving all the fish away, narrowly dodging each other and the jagged reef below—which in time turns all boats into wreckage for scuba divers to swim through and take pictures of with their underwater cameras—at each blind, high speed turn…

Maybe it's time to find a new island. Perhaps a bigger one, with more humans on it, fewer robots, fewer boats, more tranquil waters… Perhaps one where the best fisherman simply catch the most fish...

But where you can find an island like that? Can you swim there (you've had a couple boats in your day but they are firmly planted in the ocean floor at this point)? Is it time to just say, “**** it” and swim back to the mainland???

(Deep down you know that last question is purely rhetorical/a waste of your time- you've been gone from the mainland way too long, you can never go back there...)

---

This is "the long run" (well, not mathematically speaking because no one’s ever going to see that obv... but close enough), and it's not so pretty…

The 30k bankroll and 3k/month in expenses you had in 2008, when you were one of the very first to say "**** it" and quit their day job to make their night job their career- because you were absolutely obsessed with “the Cadillac of poker” and it (EVEN FULL RING!) was just insanely lucrative, is now a -35k bankroll (hello again, credit card debt), 19k/month in expenses (hello bloated family and business/travel expenses), and suddenly you have the same enthusiasm for going to work as a factory worker (who has done the same task full-time for almost a decade) might have...

You still attack the scared money and unbalanced ranges correctly as you always have (yawn), but way too often these days instead of driving home wondering how you are going to hide/launder all your cash, you find yourself sitting at some casino bar with one red chip in your pocket and a burning sensation in your chest like you wouldn't believe…

Everyone around you is taking shots of Tequila in their company polos, cheers-ing, laughing, High 5-ing, making fun of their co-workers who aren’t there, and of course talking a lot of good-natured **** about their boss who is probably stuck in some meeting somewhere… You think about their boss and how he likely earns less than you do annually (maybe like half as much), but he prob has a healthy savings account, a decent investment portfolio, a retirement fund, maybe some real estate, etc- not to mention almost certainly a much healthier lifestyle and a solid group of friends to do normal **** with, like go golfing, have fantasy football draft parties or whatever, get the families together on weekends, etc…

And here you are, sitting quietly by yourself in front of a video poker screen, tilt-texting wild poker metaphors/the latest chapter of your suddenly/increasingly sad life story on your outdated iPhone, perhaps to later post it as an unabashed PSA in your dumb thread on twoplustwo, but more likely just to delete it and forget about it (because that is coping at its finest obv), after you cool down and realize you were being incredibly entitled, self-absorbed and pathetic...

Regardless, you need to vent right now/lower your blood pressure a little bit while you wait for one of your very few real friends in this world to come have a beer with you and give you money to play again...

---

You think back to your freshly completed marathon session of death- how you predicted it/felt it coming (those claws) the moment you doubled up that ho-bot in 8 for her 4k one dealer in, how so ****ing often that icky/heavy feeling of the curse monkey on your back actually proves to be an accurate premonition- in poker and in life. How you are too logical to ever account for it/not completely laugh at the thought of it being real whenever you are off tilt/in your right mind, but how statistically significant the sample (of it being an accurate predictor of horrible luck to come) is starting to seem…

Curse monkeys aside, you've endured so many “marathon sessions of death” at this point that in theory you should prob just be numb to them. But you are a highly competitive, highly emotional (sometimes), and highly financially responsible human being (more so than any other poker pro you know- by a very wide margin), so each one still gets you good for at least 30 minutes after you walk away from the table…

You think about when you had KJ vs 55 against the 6 seat who was sitting too deep for his own good and so you had been bluffing him to death for hours- and the board ran out 887J5, and you triple barreled hard like you always do when a nit is at their boiling point and you bink/it's time to get paid…

Or when he actually showed some gamble/fight (after losing a big chunk of his stack to the 3 seat obv- who tricked him into paying off light with his amazing tanking and stare downs!) and shipped his naked 9-high flush draw vs your overpair + blocker/redraw. You ran it twice and he scooped…

Or when you 3b the 7 seat’s button open with KQ and it came QT447, and he taaaank called your 1/3 river bet with AQ (he had to be thinking about raising obv, but still it’s always so tilting when you are begging for a call in your head and then you finally get one and lose)…

Or when you 3b him again and then Cbet with QQs on J65sss and he peeled with 97hh (glitch?) and it came red 8, brick...

Spoiler:


Or when you KNEW (because you are an old school soul reader) that seat 2 had flopped pair + gutter on 743 and so you decided to take him on a nice little ride through value town by over-betting the 8 turn with J7, and he called and binked no problem, and he won zero more- but still plenty…

Or when almost that same exact hand happened several hours later vs a recreational robot (trying hard af to win obv and ~ as skilled as your average live pro tbh). And he also got a nice little ride on the turn vs “2ndpgk”- and he also binked and won zero more dollars (but still plenty!)...

How you bluffed some game selector extremist bot in a big pot and showed, because you don’t like him stalking your games/looking over your shoulder every morning like he’s a reporter for Pokernews…

Spoiler:


And then a few hands later you 3b Mr. Pokernews with J8hh (marginal, but w/e) and it came 975hh and you doubled his 99 right up to 10k so he could quickly grab racks and be on his way- having "played great" like always you imagine…

And so on and so on and so on...

And oh yeah, how the one time you actually flopped a set in a multiway pot and you won the biggest pot of the day off that baby-faced assassin in 6 (he got bailed out immediately after- don’t worry), you got to hear from just about everyone how good you run

Fortunately you didn't have to hear it from the one cool human (finally!) pro who several hours later would call your obv whale iso from the bb with 65o, check-raise the whale's lead and your call on 843r, and then after the whale’s fold, unhappily call off vs your ship with K8- but then happily (you can only assume) bink the nuts on both run outs, sending you off to the casino bar, felted and frustrated, with a one red chip roll...

Ahhhhh….

---

Your friend shows up and the beer you were gonna have turns into "a few". He tells you he has 8k to his name (we are some real brm beasts, lemme tell you) but you can go play with all of it if you want (because he's the realist mf on the planet and he knows what it takes for you to lose/what it doesn't take for you to win)… So you grab his net worth, offer him half your action, he accepts because he has heart (and because he’s smart/he’s up like 35k+ in the past few months buying random pieces of you/his timing is impeccable obv), you give him a fist pound, and you go re-sit in your game, which isn’t nearly as good as it was when you left (the “fun players” so often pick up right after you do- which is both funny and awesome obv)...

You play nowhere near as well as you did before but still good enough to win- because it is lol live poker after all… You make some hands (zomg!), spew off a bit (standard), win 7k (well your friend wins 3500 and you win 3500- you lost 18k on your own in the marathon prior), and then you finally rack up when you can't keep your eyes open any longer…

You crash hard but only sleep a few hours, because no matter what you just can't sleep long in Vegas. You wake up, make a few sports bets (your bookie is like 1 of 25 people who owe you money- he owes from other people winning on your account obv) and you read your tilt text over a Stella Artois and some leftover pizza. You edit it and add to it quite a bit, and then you save it as a Word document on your laptop because you might post it later on 2p2 (maybe not). Then you start to think about your kids…

You miss your kids an insane amount. It's only a couple more days until you will be with them again and in total you will only have been gone about a week, but you have to look at pictures and watch videos of them because they are the inspiration and the reason you are still in this game you no longer love… Well, you love the actual game, you just don't love the pace of it, or how the results so often don't match the performance, or that you play it with robots almost exclusively...

You take a shower, log your bad results on your spreadsheet- poor you, you are only up _ _ _k after 7 months of the year (in fairness, you were up signif more after 6 months), and you check bravo to see where you can go do it all over again. You are mentally prepared for variance misery tnite, ready for those ****ing claws (if they come), ready for all the robots and their predictable ways…

You are strong enough for now to keep surviving/maintaining most of your sanity on your tiny island. You've been in this spot with your back up against the wall (a palm tree?) plenty of times before. And unless you spark some sort of extended heater (you've sparked a couple in your career but both times ****ed off all the money you should have saved/invested/taken nosebleed shots with/etc), you imagine you will be here again at least a few more times before it’s all over… It's ok. It's who you are and who you have always been. You fall down a lot- but you always get back up. You are both clumsy as **** and resilient as **** that way. Oh well, maybe tnite will be different...

Time to go to work…
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:24 AM   #3217
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Work wasn’t so bad. It was 3 blinds and a bunch of people who don’t know how to play 3 blinds. You played well. You played a hand perfectly (iyho) but still had to call off with A6 suited vs 99 pre—you won the moderate pot! You also got it in for a bigger pot with 99 vs 66 on J86Tr (you called the sb’s 3b pre, called flop and raise-shipped turn because most all of his range can’t call amirite?) and you chopped running it twice!

Despite being on an ugly downswing, which has made you poor again, and writing a lot, and obsessing over variance and robots and the revolving door of high stakes poker (which you have somehow faded for almost 10 years now)- this trend of getting it in bad is new (as is the binking trend obv). Like any good lol live pro you question your plays despite binking these 2 hands (one for a win and one for a chop)…… eh… you played well/fine, **** happens, you ran bad then good in a couple hands, big deal…

The game gets short and you win every pot. Even though you never have anything you are wise enough to know that you are actually running very well (because they never have anything either obv). They quit you- it’s amazing that so many people who talk **** about you as a player (when you aren’t there obv- but someone is always happy to relay it to you ☺) always need to seat change on you full ring and then always “don’t feel like playing” when the blinds start coming around too fast.

Oh well, you try to not be bitter as tonight was the first breath of fresh air you’ve had in a long time. You rack up your moderate win and go to the cage. Summer is just about over. It was a turbulent one. You started off crushing- and then ended up getting crushed. You met a lot of new hotshots and hopefuls (the WSOP in Vegas is basically a giant luckbox/optimist convention) and ofc you saw a lot of former hotshots and hopefuls grinding 2-5 (no shame in that obv- foreshadow alert!).

As is the case every summer, you really enjoyed some of the foreign dudes you played with- even if they were good and knew nothing about curse monkeys. Lawrence/Lorenzo from Macau (originally Switzerland or somewhere like that), Johan from France (who wears 2 watches and tanks too much but is actually a beast) and especially Tom from England (who was the 56th best player in the world this year!), all left good impressions/were fun to meet and play with... And oh yeah, shout out to Tom Cannoli from USA, just an awesome and hilarious guy who had you laughing for days after you played with him (pretty sure he was like the 7th best player in the world last year). Just typing his name makes you think about some of his antics/your exchanges and you can’t help but crack a smile from behind your laptop, as you download your troubled brain and weary soul over a Duvel bomber, hopefully to sleep well soon/now…
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:27 AM   #3218
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

The thing about a breath of fresh air is that it isn’t always followed by another one... When you bluff as much as you do (you can’t think of anyone more balanced in that regard- unless you’re way over balanced/thus unbalanced, which is quite possibly true, but w/e, they still need good hands to call it off, so **** ‘em, rep you will), you feel more entitled to not get completely ****ed when you have a big hand…

Like when you 3b the new pro who has had enough of your **** with 55 and he has QT oop, and it comes JT5, even if you don’t lose a penny on the river in a huge pot (because he donk/called turn like a genius obv), the 8…9 run out is tilting af…

Same as when you re-pop with AA in position and lose to A4 (Q644J)…

Or when you re-pop with QQ and it’s 3-way on 9433 and the deep whale keeps leading his flush draw into you and the conservative but tilted/losing player is sandwiched with 44 so she never has to do anything but call and therefore you never even get a chance to not double her up…


Needless to say you are back in the abyss. You CANNOT win. You are up almost 200,000 BIG BLINDS in your professional career, against anyone and everyone whoever sat in the biggest non-nosebleed no limit games in all the popular casinos in SoCal and Las Vegas since 2007- and you CANNOT win. Every hand is death. Every bet/fold results in a fold. The ONLY hands you win are stone bluffs- and as some weird needle by God you win an insanely high % of those! Doesn’t matter, next hand you flop pair + gutter vs overpair and it’s Brickyard 500 the rest of the way guaranteed. It’s insane. It’s making you angry, slightly mean at times, certainly self-destructive…

You decide to just play 5-10 for a bit because a) you can’t play bigger because you are a broke joke and so are almost all your friends and b) you could def stand a session with less stress…

Doesn’t matter. They whack you at 5-10…

**** it, your blood has been boiling for too long on this downswing and you want to live to see your kids grow up. You’ll just chill and play some 2-5 until things turn/you get your head straight. How bad can the swings at 2-5 be?

Lose 5k. Lose 5k. Lose 5k. WTMFW?

A friend comes into town and wants to goof around in 1-2. Sure, why not?

STACKED FIRST HAND HAHHAA…

You play some more 2-5 (which often plays bigger/more profitable than 5-10 in Las Vegas- ugly truth!) and this Russian **** boy who you have played bigger with and you have just completely owned over the years (last notable hand he tried to iso a couple fit or fold fish in 5-10-20 and you cock-blocked him by flatting A6o on the button, he c/r’d the Q82r flop 3rd of 4 to act- lol, snap led the K turn, and then bombed the 2 river but left himself $250 behind for some reason- lol again, only to lose like a 5k pot with J6 suited- because you certainly aren’t folding your hand at any point vs his retarded line and brutal tells)- well anyways, he calls your 1k ship into a pot of 350 in this 2-5 game (you over-bet the flop too obv, because 2-5 pots are just too small if you bet normal ☺) on 865dKd. You have 75o. River is the 9d so you think you ****ed him, but noooooo, he ****ed you- he has 54dd…

Spoiler:


RFB talks some ****- because some weird people talk **** when they win/get lucky. You illegally add on (shh!). Soon you raise him from 250 to 1050 (that’s big for 2-5 in case you didn’t know) on some river where you have the blocker but no pair, but that’s not entirely why you raised- you raised because even you shouldn’t really have gotten there with any hands that would need to bluff. More importantly, you have become all but obsessed with bluffing level 2 players like RFB after you lose a big pot- they think 100% you are too smart (or not dumb enough rather) to bluff with your current image/you are just trying to use fake tilt to get paid off like everyone else does after losing a big one (← you practically invented that **** years ago but now only use it on levels 1 and 3- on those very rare occasions when you actually get the “just-lost-a-big-one-dial-me-up-a-monster-ASAP-plz-dealer” bailout that you used to get plenty/all the good pros still get all the time obv)...

You show your 70-year-old neighbor your successful bluff (RFB reluctantly folded to the 1050) but no one else, because that’s just feels best in the moment lol. Then you get the Cadillac of starting hands- KQ suited. You open some poor bastard’s straddle who didn’t want to straddle but you pressured him into it (embarrassed). You are in ep. RFB is the bb and he 3bets you. Chill. You call. Flop QTxr. He leads, you call. Turn Jr. He leads again. You call again (obvvvvvvv). River J. Check, check. He has KJo and scoops it up. Yay! VNH again, **** boy!

You are suddenly below the maximum buy-in in 2-5 and you don’t have any more bullets… You think about credit card advance (oh yeah, you already took 300 out with your debit card the other day and paid some joke fee just to top off during some other ****-storm 2-5 session- true story)… You are suddenly brought back to the times when you were 21 and you would come to Vegas and **** everything off in the pits and build mountains of debt by basically taking all your plastic to the cage with a blind-fold on...

**** it, you will play with 850 or whatever...

You decide to use your card-breaking image (yes, you actually broke cards in 2-5 hahaha) to get it in with A6 vs K9 on 664K. River King. Good night now. Red chips play in this game. So do $1 chips…

You walk to the casino bar with a zero chip roll this time. You order a Stella (Stella isn’t even that good, it’s just the best high volume beer out there, right?) and sit at the same video poker spot as before... You think about your kids, your friend whose baby roll you obliterated, how ****ed you are and how you don’t wanna ask anyone else for a loan cuz that’s embarrassing as **** and the people who have it typically can’t fathom why anyone capable of winning and paying it back would need it.

To be continued (perhaps to be posted eventually, probably not, ydk)…
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:29 AM   #3219
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

You contemplate selling your car, which you bought brand new in cash during your first heater in 2008, which has been insanely reliable (because it’s a mf Lexus) rolling up and down the 5 and 15 freeways for 140,000+ very interesting miles. You think better of it though because you love/need your ride, and it’s prob only worth ~2 losing 2-5 sessions for you at this point lol. You contemplate a few other ideas as well but then ultimately decide it’s best to just use your good credit and get a loan with a reasonable interest rate…

Suddenly you have more bullets. You don’t have to play red chips- hopefully ever again (those guys are too good!). You just need to get on the grind and find/build those higher stakes short-handed/3-blind nl money trees that have always been so good to you. And you need to not run like death, which you are obv a huge favorite to do (not run like death that is) moving forward. You understand math and probabilities and that each poker hand is random (REALLY doesn’t feel that way though sometimes amirite?), and you have faith that you won’t (in all probability) get struck by lightning again for a while.

You feel better. WAYYYY better. You didn’t really sleep last night because your kids took turns keeping you up for some reason- and yet you have positive energy for the first time in a while. You can work, and that feels like a luxury right now. And you are focused. You might get ****ed by God/the dealer/the deck- but you might not too. Anyways, this whole loan process has really clarified something extremely important for you: Your problem actually isn’t poker- or even variance it turns out .

The reality is that you make A LOT of money every year just showing up at card rooms and sitting down in the biggest no limit game they’ve got going. Your problem- hopefully writing this will finally help get it through your thick skull- is what it always has been your whole life: poor money management/being too generous. You’ve taken on too much financial responsibility for your family. You’ve always wanted them to have everything. But in reality they don’t need everything. And come to think of it, growing up you never even really liked the kids who had everything

Also, you decide it should be somewhat of a team effort/you shouldn’t literally be shortening your life by years (decades?) to make 3 people perfectly comfortable/100% stress-free…

Additionally, you still spew too hard on expensive leaks whenever you are winning (most of the time), so you need to somehow rectify that bad/old habit… Basically, you just have never been anywhere near disciplined/frugal enough to handle getting paid 20% of your yearly salary one month, -15% of your yearly salary the next month, and so on…

Moving forward, instead of sweating your KQ suited losing to some **** boy’s way overplayed oop KJo, you will focus your worry energy on your spending...

You make a personal P&L spreadsheet and it’s even grosser than expected. You’ve been living a long time with the (relative to the non-nosebleed poker max salary) financial weight of the world on your back- and a lot of it ($2500/month just on groceries for 3 people pretty much???) seems frivolous. When you are running good it’s no problem though/it all gets covered up (you won 20k in a 5-10 game not too long ago- that covers a full month of bills/spewing). When you are running even, it feels like hard work but it’s fine (you win so many big pots with air vs bad/scared players you actually start to feel guilty- true story). But when you are running bad, you just can’t make ends meet/you start obsessing over variance and writing long essays you probably won’t even post…

You know where your real opportunity is now. Your game is fine. You have the rare sample to prove that beyond any smidgeon of a doubt- and yes, the vast majority of that sample has been drinking at the table, entertaining/accommodating rec players, playing garbage hands in position against narrow ranges, etc, etc, etc.

What you need to do is tighten things up in the losses column of your P&L sheet. The profits column has been fine (even if it’s swingy as ****) for a very long time, and it will continue to be that way as long as you have the capital to work and people keep sitting short-handed with you, trying to outsmart you, out-read you, out-play you, out-heart you, etc. In the end, they just don’t have the juice for all that. On second thought- that’s the real, real thing…

(DGAF starts planning his next poker trip and feels like Rocky Balboa running up the stairs/on the beach- can’t remember exactly which one, but you know what I mean.)

I’m coming for you, robots…

Last edited by DGAF; 02-14-2017 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:29 AM   #3220
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Should you post these essays/journal entries that you keep reading for clarity though? They started out as a tilt text at that casino bar after 65o scooped your K8 on 843r running it twice, remember? And then you kept writing like a madman until your head was straight? And so it is now- relatively speaking at least. So should you post? Some of the writing is pretty good (the breath of fresh air line is pretty dope iyho). Some of it (especially the hh’s obv) is pretty boring/tedious. And ofc there are lots of technical issues (standard) as well as some real flow issues (that’s what happens when you write the first draft of something on mad tilt and then try to make it readable later on lol)…

Really though, the biggest problem you are having with pulling the trigger and just posting all this ****/finally getting the conclusion to your thread underway (this is only installment 1 of 3 eek, the last 2 parts will be much shorter though-promise) so that you can move on and reallocate your weekly 2p2 time towards entrepreneurial efforts- that will hopefully enable you to gtfo of poker once and for all (“You have been in the game too long…”), is that because this thing started out as stone venting with no intention of ever sharing it with anyone, when you read it now it comes off a little too bitchy for your liking. And you aren’t a little ***** at all- even though poker (errr, your insane monthly nut) makes you seem like one in your writing sometimes. In fact, you are less little ***** than almost anyone you know…


Don’t other non-robots who play poker for a living and have a lot of financial responsibility also feel trapped when they are low financially/spiritually and cannot for the love of god make a hand? When they are losing non-stop and every hand blows up in their faces- aren’t they also pretty repulsed by all the smugness and insincerity and sociopathic behavior from all those living above the surface? Don’t they also think it’s odd so many poker players have all this “confidence” despite no spreadsheet/graph/SAMPLE to support it?

Anyways, prob best to not post. It’s too little bitchy (I mean just look at the previous paragraph, jesus). Too many haters will pop up and be like, “first world problems”, “you are a self-absorbed degen”, “you play too many hands”, “your drivel is boring and emo and incredibly entitled” (I actually agree with them- if I were doing this out loud/it wasn’t intended to be a ‘live poker is not a good career choice’ PSA/a no air-brush portrait of the tilt, despair, loneliness, stress, etc that can come with playing big for too long- even if you win a ton overall), “maybe you should just play better”…

And those who actually see this insanely long rant/thread conclusion for what it is and who are supportive- they will undoubtedly give you your all time favorite pep talk (which makes you feel kinda loved/cared about and like you want to rip your face off at the same time), “Think positive! Running bad is a self-fulfilling prophecy! I mean… It can’t hurt, right?”

You don’t think positive. You talk positive when you’ve been binking but it’s all sarcasm. You don’t think negative either, which is why you never quit a good game even if you are down 10 billion big blinds. But you do talk negative when things are horrible, and even though that is also mainly sarcasm (as well as some good old-fashioned venting obv) your friends and loved ones don’t want to hear it. It makes them sad to see you like that, and you are not in the business of making people sad- especially those people. So that is something you will work on…

Moving forward, you will take more walks when you are steamed up- even if you know a whale is about to give it all away/the luckbox who just doubled through you will take the non-confrontational opportunity to hit ‘n’ run you. And from now on if you need to tell an ugly hand history you will save it for a homeless person- and you will give him/her a couple bucks for each one listened to. That seems fair. That way you will be less tilted all the time and with less friends/loved ones upset. Yep, that’s what you will do from now on…

But should you post this **** though?! Well, you should do something before your laptop quits you/these essays (or whatever they are) become the lamest stream of consciousness pieces in history… Yeah, just delete. It’s too little bitchy. It’s too disjointed (because you wrote on tilt and revised off tilt). The haters will have too much of a field day with it- and it will kill you to not reply to them because you are too competitive/f************k them iyo.

Also, all the players who know you irl will revel in your financial situation too much if they know the truth. And then you will level yourself into calling their ships (which always have been and always will be the nuts) thinking they are trying to exploit your situation. So yeah, no post. Thank God, you almost made a big mistake…

The End (of this chapter)

Spoiler:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwDgDRNwIdE
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:13 AM   #3221
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

I actually read all 5 of those posts dgaf.
by the 4th one before you mentioned it i was like your problem is clearly money management. yours is garbage and you know it. i hope you're exaggerating about the 19k monthly expenses but i think you're being serious.
Your kids /wife don't need most of the **** you're blowing money on.
Poker is gonna just get harder and you don't want to be 60 years old grinding a casino when you should have a fat retirement fund.

And lol@ not even liking the kids who had everything growing up. so true.

Canoli plays plo- you should too!


Looking forward to your next post...
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:59 PM   #3222
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

God you're such a ****in gangsta

Sad this thread is coming to a close

Wish you the best in your future endeavors


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Old 02-14-2017, 05:14 PM   #3223
Avaritia
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

That island metaphor was the real deal. Hit me hard
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:23 PM   #3224
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

Cannuli seems like a good guy and I was rooting for him in the '15 main event. It turns out we went to the same high school.

Great 1st chapter of your final posts DGAF!


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Old 02-14-2017, 06:05 PM   #3225
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Re: 2k- a poker story (wtmfl;dr obv)

That was some of the rawest, most real **** I have ever read. I want to give you a hug, buy you a beer, and find you a real job all at the same time. It also makes my problem of not winning as much as I want seem pretty small. Perspective. I can relate to growing family expenses for sure and despite living in an even more expensive area than you, we have a lower nut. Having kids in public school the whole way and seeing the ticket my siblings pay for their kids I can honestly say **** private school. Ofc that may not be the same conclusion if they weren't in the best school district in the city/state? and my older one wasn't taking/crushing calculus as a sophomore.

I don't have any great advice to change the flow of the cards. I will also not say you need to play better or that you need to stay positive or that you need to exercise and work on balance or eat better. All of these were recs my team gave to me recently. I will simply offer you misery loves company. I moved down a little to gain confidence (lol) and have been working harder on my game than ever. I then immediately went on a 30 BI downswing. I am pretty sure this is the fastest that has ever happened to me. With a lower variance style this is an astronomical amount to lose in 1 week. Your posts made me strongly consider quitting completely but I just don't think I can fill the void quite yet. So I guess I work harder, play better, and grind on for now.

Thanks for sharing though. The stripped down (not whiny but super real) version of you is what makes this thread what it is.
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