OK, OK, I know, don't play junk. I got myself into a tight spot of my own creation.

2/5, 8 handed, Florida card room, all but one at the table is a reg. $1K max buy.

V1: UTG+1, A below average player, makes mistakes, occasionally wins big, leaves angry fairly often, a petty jerk at times. I really enjoy putting him on tilt. Tight/Passive, I've never seen him play junk. Stack ~ $1500

Hero: Button, An average player at this regular game of 2/5. In prior sessions, I've been caught making $500+ bluffs by both villains and they have bluffed me off of big hands. I struggle to break even at this game. I've been having a good day, stack ~ $2600

V2: BB, by far the best player at the table. He is very tight TAG OOP. I've never seen him play junk or make a bone head play except for the one time when there were 4 people in for $20, I raised to $100 with AKs, V2 went all in for $900. I called hoping he was playing JJ or QQ. He had AQs, we chopped the pot with a 2P board. He plays three times a week at this table and I've only heard of him leaving a loser about 5 times. He's very good and I try to stay out of his pots. About once a session he will show a big dollar well timed bluff that costs me the pot. He's been having an off day for him, stack ~ $1700.

V1 opens for $20.

There is mid position caller, and I have 52s on the button. I play this hand rarely; locals call it Panda. If I beat V1 with this hand, he will go on bat crap crazy tilt, so it is worth the risk and I take advantage of my position and call.

V2 pauses as he always does. I can see him contemplating a raise, but he only makes the call.

The flop is perfect for me, T52. It is checked to me and I bet $65 into an $82 pot. V2 pauses but not the long pause he does before any raise and then calls, V1 insta calls, the last player folds.

The turn is a dream card, T525. V1 checks, I check, V2 checks. Pot = $277

The river: T525Q with 3 diamonds. V1 bets $125. I assume he most likely hit the Q or the flush as he is a fairly ABC player. I raise to $350, V2 raises to $850, V1 goes all in for about $1300. Now what do I do with my perfect flop and turn?

Why did you check the turn? How is V2 checking last if he is the big blind?

What to do? Stuff your chips in the middle, live with the outcome.

Good catch, it was late when I wrote this and I screwed up the order. V2 acts first on turn and river, checking.

Why did I check, I've got second nuts and it appears they have nothing. I want it to look like I took a stab at the pot on the flop and gave up to two callers on the turn, rather than looking like the turn helped me.

It appears they have nothing? They called a 3/4 pot flop bet with nothing? If you're going to play the Scuba (I guess Panda where you are), you absolutely must make max when it makes a monster and you are 300BBs deep. You're not getting it all in the middle without a turn bet almost ever.

AP, can't really fold now, but this is definitely a bad situation caused mostly by bad play pre and OTT.

Why would you check turn when they both could have AT or flush draws? Was the flush draw on flop or was it backdoor? Are either of these guys going apeshit with the nut flush? Feels like you should be beat by both of them. I probably fold and don’t tell anyone

Your multiway, IP, they both called your large flop bet AND there is 300 BB behind.. not betting the turn is criminal.

Flop was rainbow, turn and river made the flush. So I didn't figure anyone was chasing the flush.

Wow this hand is crazy. Some kind of quantum cooler? Preflop is obv bad; download it into your mental software to muck hands like this automatically. Checking the turn is a travesty. When I read that the turn got checked through I said "What??" out loud at my desktop.

As for river ... if both of these villains are as you describe('tight/passive, never plays junk' and 'very tight TAG oop') I think you're dead against Tens full every time. Your turn check has you under-repped of course and it's easy to level yourself here, but I'd be shocked if your hand was good. I fold river.

Yes. After a check, check, I bet that flop from the button almost every time. V2 knows me well enough to figure I'll take a stab. V1 is a more curious call but if he is something like AK, it isn't an unreasonable call.

Passive play flop/turn followed by river fireworks are almost always slow played monsters, or long shots that hit the river. There was an incredible bluff by Sam Trickett (look it up) on a three way pot...so it does happen, but it is incredibly rare...and maybe it happens in a tournament, not cash.

Best case scenario is V1 hit a backdoor flush (or super spazy AQ), and V2 has 22.

But my guess is V2 has 1010.

Don't think I'm good enough to fold though.

They both called your flop bet. They have “something”

The rest of the hand is slightly weird. I wouldn’t be afraid of QQ because it would be weird for the preflop raisee to check that flop and weird for big blind not just call preflop. That said TT is firmly in both ranges and I likely fold this river to that action.

They both called your flop bet. They have “something”

The rest of the hand is slightly weird. I wouldn’t be afraid of QQ because it would be weird for the preflop raisee to check that flop and weird for big blind not just call preflop. That said TT is firmly in both ranges and I likely fold this river to that action.

The hand is a train wreck IMO and shows why we don't ever flat 52s but you should just never fold boats IMO, live NLH sucks so bad that absolute hand strength triumphs over all most of the time from my experience. Any of the v's can have top trips/nutted flushes or be bluffing.

I agree with you but...

Running thru my mind was the fact that last week, V2 watched this hand.

LW=last week villains. I have KK, 3bet pre to $65 and get two callers. Flop = JT2. It is checked to me and I bet $125 and get two calls. Turn = JT25 and LWV1 bets $100, LWV2 calls, and fearing a trap, I raise to only $300, getting two calls. The river is some low noise card, LWV1 bets $150, LWV2 goes all in for $650 and I fold.

They both show. LWV1 had something like KT for a pair of tens, LWV2 had JQ for a pair of Js. Yeah, I know, I thought about posting that hand so I would get yelled at for not raising larger on the turn and maybe learn my lesson. This week's V2 correctly guessed after the hand that I had folded an overpair.

So was V2 trying to run a big bluff? I had to consider that as a possibility but decided it was a low probability.

I don't think V1 is capable of that kind of bluff and has to have something, maybe a nut flush and led pre with AKd or AQd. That doesn't make perfect poker sense, but there's a lot I don't respect about V1's game, so I mark it as another possibility but low probability in light of a raise and reraise in front of him. He's not stupid bad.

Why are you raising if you fear a trap? And raising 175 into a 900 pot accomplished nothing...you gave villains great odds.

Or perhaps they were colluding.

If you are talking about the Last Week hand, I already said it was bad play. If you need me to say it explicitly, it was stupid to raise so small. I completely realize my bad play caused me to lose the hand. It was bone headed and as we can see in this week's hand, when playing with regs, there are always metagame, or at least metahand considerations. That's why I brought it up.

Could they be colluding? It's possible but I've only seen them play together last week and this week. They were sitting side by side, so that makes collusion communications easier, but it would be a pretty wild risk to toss that much into a pot where I've shown so much strength. Just to be clear, you do realize that last week villains are different players than this week villains? I only related that hand to demonstrate that this week's V1, a very observant player, has specific info on me that MIGHT color how he plays the hand.

Actually didn't read past the min raise. Sorry. I'm wondering why you raised at all here if you were concerned about a trap. If I'm truly feeling a trap, I call or fold.

Also how would v2 know your hand? You rarely want anyone to know you make nitty laydowns. If he said something, I might have replied that I had a KQ suited and missed.

I didn't confirm I folded an over pair, but I was tilting hard and it was obvious I was steaming about something.

sorry, I just realized I ignored your trap comment. I always consider the possibility of a trap. I wasn't truly feeling it but it did make me reduce my bet size and ending up trapping myself. Anything larger would have made me pot committed so it was a BIG raise or a small raise. I was giving myself the room to fold if needed.

I really hate getting stacked when I have only one pair. I see people do it over and over again with AA as if nuts-pre makes them entitled to a big pot. I can make a big fold, but that means I sometimes get bluffed. I have yet to find the perfect middle ground.

Results?

What is going on in this hand? Flatting 52s deep on the button against a UTG opener with a narrow range who'll play badly in big pots is whatever, but... we have to not get FPS or click buttons post.

Turn is a mandatory bet. Their ranges include Tx, some straight draws, some pair+flush draws (the # depending on which flop card was the diamond), A3dd/A4dd, and a few 5x.

I guess as played we should probably be folding to this river action? It's hard to imagine they're both putting in 12 bets with diamonds after the turn checked around, the only boat behind us is one combo of 22, and TT is very much in play (QQ is less likely but still possible). But we should never be in this spot.

Results:

All those who said shove were absolutely wrong.

All those who said I should bet the river are correct from a technical perspective but the poker gods granted me a special favor and it was way to my benefit that I did not.

I tanked for a long time, trying to figure out what could be going on. I seriously doubted V1 would open with T5s or Q5s, so I did not fear those over boats. He might have the nut flush, 22, A5s, TT, or QQ. Both TT and QQ fit his actions well.

V2, is not one to play T5 or Q5 either, but it is more likely since he was capping the action pre. He's way to good to spaz with the nut flush or even a 22 boat in this situation.

I ultimately folded because I couldn't see how I could have both of them beat the stack sizes involved meant that I didn't want to shove for a small side pot I might not be winning.

I fold and V2 immediately jumps up from his chair and says V1 played like he had QQ. But for an additional ~ $450 vs the pot, he had to call.

V2 = TT
V1 = rivered a QQ boat

Had Hero or V2 pushed the pot on the turn, V1 said he was have folded, and I don't see how I wouldn't have come close to doubling up V2 in a heads up situation. All things considered, I got out cheap and jumped up and did a happy dance at my correct decision. V2 packed up his remaining few hundred chips and went home in one of the very few times I've ever seen him show anger at the table.

Fortunately for me, within a half hour, I got in another hand were I flopped top set vs bottom set, turned quads, and I stacked that player while earning the $350 high hand bonus. Then while waiting the 23 minutes to get paid for the high hand, I flopped a set of 4s on a QT4 board against which villain had flopped top 2 earning me another $500.

Some days, no matter how stupid bad you are, the poker gods smile upon you.

You got incredibly lucky not to lose your whole stack on this hand, but that said......

You have to bet the turn. You have a full house against two opponents who are interested in the pot (and they will never put you on 52s). You're only realistically losing to TT (unfortunately V2 has that hand). Have to bet for value. Fundamental of LLNL 101.....make a hand and value bet the ***** out of it. Most 1-2 or 2-5 players don't like to fold when they have something, and while you have a very strong hand, there's no reason to give an overpair a free shot at two outing you.

As others have said, when V2 calls preflop, check calls the flop, checks the turn, and then THREE-BETS on the river, your baby full house is pretty much dust. Good fold.

I hate to be this guy, but if you’re struggling to break even, preflop is probably a big reason why. Don’t play crap hands.

List the action right on the turn. V2 checked, V1 checked, you checked behind. And the fact that you checked behind is also terrible.

You’re facing a river 4 bet. The second lowest FH is like never good against two players. Fold.


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