Live 2/5 NL

Villian SB ($1200) Middle aged LAG who has been spewing all night long and calling preflop 3-bets OOP with the likes of Ax6x etc also has called 2-3 over bet flop shoves with mid pair.

MP raises to $25 CO calls, Button and SB Flat... Hero (BB) Defends with 8c 4c...

Flop: Qs 8d 8s

Pot ($125)

Villian Leads for $200, Hero flats MP, CO and Button fold

Turn: 8h

pot ($525)

SB Checks Hero????

Given the opponents image and remaining stack size ($975) what is the most profitable line to take in order to extract max value ....clearly he shows strength by donk leading into 4 people from the SB for an overpot bet... once I get some discussion I will post the outcome and line I took just curious on thoughts given the opponents image

I probably bet like 240 on the turn and like 700 on the river.

Raise flop x turn shove river

Villains betsizing is fairly odd, given the pot and stack sizes, raising the flop would be even more odd.

Given the stacks Id bet 150-180 on the turn (as I would with Qx) and SNAP shove rivers.

Why is it Odd

from description of V sounds like we want to let him "catch up" with almost all of his garbage hands in his flop betting range and/or give him a chance to double barrel.

can't think of too many situations where we want to be raising a donk overbet on a paired board in position by a bad LAG when we have value this strong, unless we KNOW from stack sizes and V tendencies that we can make some weird raise that will induce a 10% equity 3b jam

Apparently I'm the odd one out, I feel like betting $300, so villain is almost 3:1 on the turn and almost 3:1 on the river when we go all in

It feels like a bet of less than $200, which leaves him $800 behind, makes it possible for him to get away from something weak on the river.

I think 275 or so would be good.

So are you in the BB or in MP? Kinda weird you say you defend bb but then you're in between everyone in MP?

he’s bb. OTF he’s acting between SB (donks flop) and MP, CO, BTN who all fold.

derp, that comma got me. proceed.

Yes what he said 😂 I have enjoyed the feedback I have got thus far once I see some more opinions I will post remaining action and the end result of the hand 👍🏻

Hero decided to check back turn

River: 3d (blah)

Pot ($525)

Villian Checks , Hero bets $225 Villian Folds

In hind sight: Generally speaking I would bet this turn against the greater majority of opponents... my thought process while playing against this particular spewy LAG was to check back turn in hopes of him over valuing 8s full of Queens. If he in fact did Donk lead the flop with a Q which would be pretty bad given the number of players he is leading into with an over pot sized flop bet BUT if anyone was capable of spewing it was this opponent so I didn't want to blow him off the hand by betting the turn. I figured If I could eek out two streets of value I would be fine with that unfortunately I only managed to nab him for his flop bet but given the runout I don't think I'm getting much more value because he would have called off my river bet with 8s full of Queens given game flow table dynamics and villians image/tilt factor.

Hasn't been said yet and it needs to be. Fold pre.

Fold pre.

4/1 on my money with a bunch of fish and the ol suited 3 gapper ehhh I'll defend and peel a flop off lol... game flow/dynamic of this table I felt it was worth defending but absolutely understand in the long hall it's not a profitable defend.

pot odds would matter if you were going to run this hand hot/cold with no more betting. thats not going to happen is it? instead you are going to have to play a weak dominated hand out of position that when you get stacks in you are going to be in terrible shape. The ev of your preflop call is probably pretty close to actually lighting the money on fire (-$20).

do you understand "reverse implied odds"? thats why this is such an objectively terrible call preflop.

case in point you somehow made the nuts with your 84s and still only made an additional 10x your preflop call plus the pot. how many times are you going to lose your preflop call when you miss? how many times do you get stacked when you AND someone else make trips?

I agree with everything you stated as a side note though I'm capable of folding 8 high flushes on a 3 clubs non paired runout if such a runout showed up (dependent upon factors such as opponent, bet sidings etc etc).I was not trying to get stacks in with such a defend and as previously insinuated this would be the absolute bottom of my defending range in this particular session vs these particular opponents. Overall absolutely burning money with this particular hand and in the past month or so I have tightened my defend range in this exact spot when getting 3/1 - 4/1 on a call preflop due to the fact it's not profitable in the long run... not even close.

these last few posts were the best part of this hand discussion

I count $105 in the pot when villain has the decision to call for $20. looks like 5:1.

Still I agree with folding here for exactly the reasons given... unless there is a table dynamic where Hero feels especially confident in getting value and dodging landmines.

OP you claim to be capable of folding an eight high flush on a non paired board in a raised pot. Which still means horrible reverse implied odds even if you can save a portion of your stack you still lose a big chunk dude. But can you fold trip 4's or trip 8's? Can you fold 84 on 842r board? Even if you can fold some of these hands sometimes some of those folds are going to be wrong! Think about the kind of hands you can make with 84s and then think about what kind of hands would pay those off? Not many buddy, just fold this pre. Even in this instance with a spewy player and whatever table dynamic you thought justified this defend. Also 5-1 direct odds against 3 opponents in bad position without the lead. Not good odds at all.

This is a bad call in every spot OP. In this particular spot too and I wasn't there to see the dynamics. I don't need to be. Please trust me you are overestimating your ability to outplay 3 other people with this garbage holding. Fold pre.

There is no table dynamics that justify this preflop call 200bbs deep OOP.

As I previously stated and will reinforce in bold above...I am agreeing with you

Ok wasn't sure. You win

Winner winner chicken dinner 🍗?

All day!

If calling here pre isn't profitable in a 2/5 game then this must be the toughest 2/5 game in town, with OTBredbaron and Fried Meulders controlling the 2/5 players from an iPad.

Flop spot is weird and dynamic but versus the described villain I would raise flop as played.

Turn as played I would check.