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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 02-10-2018, 11:43 AM   #1
h_ven
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2/5: AQ OOP multiway

My table just broke and I was moved to a new table, I folded the first 2 orbits and pick up AQo in the BB. Nothing crazy or notible happened the first two orbits, except UTG in the hand below played a hand with AA vs KK that was a very small pot. UTG has AA and won the min pretty much.

9 handed, 2/5 NL, $800 max buy in, Daytona Kennel Club.

UTG($375) opens to $15, I think there are 5 callers, I make it $85 from the BB with AQ I get 4 callers.

Flop (~$450): AJ7

I have everyone covered and here are the rough stack sizes behind me:
UTG: $300
MP: $625
MP:$400
BTN: $225
one other irrelevant stack

Hero is first to act....
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:16 PM   #2
diskoteque
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Check raise all in
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Old 02-10-2018, 08:33 PM   #3
Evoxgsr96
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

X range seems fine with these stack sizes and opp. and position
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:11 AM   #4
AllTheCheese
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Your raise size pre is too small. OOP you just want everyone to fold. Standard would be around 120.
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:20 AM   #5
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

With these short stacks I think the raise size pre isn't too bad. Although personally I'd raise a bit bigger. Maybe 100. Also calling pre is definitely an option.

As played x/r is interesting. I wouldn't even had e considered it as I'd just shove flop given spr.
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Old 02-11-2018, 06:44 PM   #6
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Agree w others about raise sizing preflop. $100+ min since oop. On Flop there is only 1 player with a stack bigger than the pot and against him SPR is 1.38. Check raising makes zero sense, with these stack sizes this is a clear jam. Our hand is vulnerable and wants to put draws in a spot. If this flop checks through its a disaster for us.

Last edited by Headie1; 02-11-2018 at 06:51 PM.
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Old 02-12-2018, 03:57 AM   #7
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

I think the 3-bet size and whether you do it at all should depend on the opener's tendencies, who called him, and from what position they called. 85-100 is probably fine in general. I think the correct play on the flop is all in. Checking allows them to mostly freeroll you with their 4,5,9 outers (by which I mean, only putting in money if the turn improves them), and it's an EV disaster for you when that happens. You prob don't get called by worse very frequently but that doesn't matter very much when there are 90 big blinds in the middle to win. The only definite issue there is with shoving is that you probably allow weaker aces to fold, but I think that's more than made up for by the protection you get.
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:36 AM   #8
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Looking back, yes I should have made it larger preflop I believe, regardless of the results I saw.

So, I lead out for $125, I think my initial thought on this sizing was to re-jam if a $300 stack shoved and got called by a larger stack. But now that I think about it, that thought process isn't as great as I initially thought.

UTG contemplated for a minute and eventually folded what he later said was an A.

The $625 stack shoved, a few folds, the btn contemplated and folded what he also said was an A later on.

Back to me, its about $500 more to win $1200.
I ask him out loud if he has KJ and I don't get anything from him. I'm not trying to get a read, as I don't believe in live tells that much anyway, but just talking out loud.

So I ended up folding. He generously showed KQ
I had been at this table for 2 orbits and had already seen villain call a 3bet with J9s and get it in with a gutter and FD. So I have to know he's wide and I'm only really behind AJ and rarely the bottom set.


Mentality:
1. I was on vacation and this may have made me lean towards a fold. If I didn't want to play big pots, I shouldn't have 3bet I suppose.
2. I brought enough to fire several bullets at this game anyways.
3. I don't think I would have played my A game if I would have won or lost this pot. Winners tilt/losers tilt.
4. The lack of playing recently did effect this decision.
5. I swing much more than this daily(hourly) holding crypto currency, but this win/loss would still have effected me mentally.
6. He still has 45% equity with that exact holding and slightly more with his entire range.
As played, calling is still correct.

But, I don't play often anymore and I pretty much enjoyed it for the 4 hour session I played.

2018 stats YTD:
-$40 in 4 hours 2/5
+$51 dog races in 2 hours

Maybe I'll start betting dogs full time, I think my sample can give me enough to justify this!

Responsible gambling everyone!
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Old 02-12-2018, 04:29 PM   #9
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555 View Post
I think the 3-bet size and whether you do it at all should depend on the opener's tendencies, who called him, and from what position they called. 85-100 is probably fine in general. I think the correct play on the flop is all in. Checking allows them to mostly freeroll you with their 4,5,9 outers (by which I mean, only putting in money if the turn improves them), and it's an EV disaster for you when that happens. You prob don't get called by worse very frequently but that doesn't matter very much when there are 90 big blinds in the middle to win. The only definite issue there is with shoving is that you probably allow weaker aces to fold, but I think that's more than made up for by the protection you get.
Renton- Would you ever consider b/f this flop to the $625 MP (no one else obv)? Or are we too shallow for that?

I would have made it $125 pre and just tried to vaccuum up the dead $ and if called it makes it and easy shove.
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Old 02-12-2018, 06:01 PM   #10
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Too shallow to bet fold. Bet small also is poor vs draws, which someone is likely to have in a 5 handed pot. Forcing a FD off of 36% of a 90bb pot is a large win.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:10 AM   #11
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Shove the flop, stack sizes don't give hero a ton of flexibility here and if it checks through it is disastrous
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:13 PM   #12
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

3b to $125 with 5 callers. $85 is poor sizing and begging everyone to call. If they all call at $125, pot is around $875 with largest stack at $500 and just shove flop.

Currently as played, KQ played this hand perfectly and if we put him on all flush draws and AJ, JJ, 77 I would fold flop the way you played. Betting $125 into $450 is giving the correct price for KQhh here and it's standard for him to shove since he is drawing to nuts with gutter.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:44 PM   #13
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

If we bet I think it’s a clear shove

I just think a field caller bets this flop with such a high frequency that I am comfortable going for a c/r
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:27 PM   #14
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Quote:
Originally Posted by h_ven View Post
My table just broke and I was moved to a new table, I folded the first 2 orbits and pick up AQo in the BB. Nothing crazy or notible happened the first two orbits, except UTG in the hand below played a hand with AA vs KK that was a very small pot. UTG has AA and won the min pretty much.

9 handed, 2/5 NL, $800 max buy in, Daytona Kennel Club.

UTG($375) opens to $15, I think there are 5 callers, I make it $85 from the BB with AQ I get 4 callers.

Flop (~$450): AJ7

I have everyone covered and here are the rough stack sizes behind me:
UTG: $300
MP: $625
MP:$400
BTN: $225
one other irrelevant stack

Hero is first to act....
Way way way too small preflop. I'd be making this 125 all day.

As played, I like the plan to check raise all in. Sometimes you're value towning yourself, but it's not like you aren't getting it in w/ SPR below 1.5 anyway.

Edit: check folding the flop (as you did) is a complete disaster. But I think you know that.
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Old 02-13-2018, 07:32 PM   #15
AllTheCheese
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

What do you guys think about open jamming this spot with your entire range, including KK/QQ? I think Villains can fold Ax here, and when you get called, you will be up against a lot of heart draws.
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Old 02-15-2018, 03:55 PM   #16
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllTheCheese View Post
What do you guys think about open jamming this spot with your entire range, including KK/QQ? I think Villains can fold Ax here, and when you get called, you will be up against a lot of heart draws.
It is an interesting idea. I think you are called by worse a lot as well and you probably fold out all Ax except AJ and AK. I like it.
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Old 02-15-2018, 09:56 PM   #17
Renton555
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Re: 2/5: AQ OOP multiway

In a spot like this that never happens it's probably much higher EV to do all of the above; small bet, all in, and a small checking range as well. It would be ludicrous to go all in here with AA, and KK prob gains a ton of EV from checking. Not sure if the blockers of QQ make shove>check.
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