$300 eff

2 limps, H raises 20 with A7ss OTB, 4 calls (SB, BB, MP, CO)

Flop ($100): T84ss
Checks to Hero who bets $80, BB raises to $200, Hero ? (HU)

BB is the huge whale/mark at table, plays every hand, doesn't bluff, just calls flop cbets with any pair and tries to luckbox. Plays draws passively. Currently sitting on a huge stack.

No other option than to call, if we jam we're always gii against worse and we're drawing to the nuts vs a small x/r. Fold vs brick rivers if villain bets.

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We only have $80 behind if we call.

Sorry, then it's an easy ship. That allows villain to call with certain semi bluffs that we beat.

Edit: for some reason i thought stack sizes were 1k eff.

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nice hand

can he have JJ-QQ-KK?
i fold vs described villain

Don't think so. Can you really put in $80 and then fold?

shiparooooooooo

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I'm cbetting $55 or $60 OTF; folding to a raise vs this villain.




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Really easy check back otf 5-way with A high & pretty much no FE, closing the action is prob the most important part to not get blown off our equity or GII as an underdog.

Ap flop bet is just way too big.

Ap rip it in, cant fold cant call

His most likely holding is a single pair and not AA. Assuming everyone else got out of the way this is a snap shove. Pre-flop action generated enough over lay for our hand to GII with him. If we didn't want to GII with villain in spots like this we should have just limped pre and checked the flop.

You need around 40% to shove (you have no FE) and you dont have it unless your A is good.. vs this villain it almost never is.

I guess it's so close it doesn't really matter, if you give yourself 1 more out on average because of your A people are right ITT and you gotta go with it. I think this is 100% 22,44 and the occasionnal 24s thought.

I shoved, he had 84o and held.

Shove is still best once you bet. Check and bet flop are both good. I don't think either is always right. My default is to bet.

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If I'm betting flop it's more in the 55-70 range. Checking back is an option especially since we have absolute position and could see a turn card for free. SPR is 3 so it wouldn't be too hard to get stacks in which is evident from the action as played. Speaking of which, as played I don't see how we could let this go. Based on read we know villain had at least a pair, but could it be as simple as Tx or a flush draw with a pair on the flop that isn't spade? If that's the case then it's a slam dunk jam. As played we get it in but no fist pumping allowed.

I think betting this flop is bad. Way more value in checking it back ip and letting the money flow to u. There are some 2 spade flops i prefer to bet tho, not this one.

Like a flop that both hits your range and will more often be flatted rather than raised like Ks7s3h is a great flop to bet with nfd coz kx is in your range and kx just peels instead of raises when they have it. But this isnt a flop i would expect to be flatted often.

I think checking behind is probably better than betting $80, but betting $40-$50 is better than checking.

I would definitely like a check better if the pot was shorter handed, but with so many people in the pot there's value to clearing up our ace as an out and getting a number of people to call, since we have an equity advantage.

This and INEC.

Checking back flop gets us to the river for probably no more than the $80 we cbet IF we get the right odds (we wont). Once we head to the flop 5 handed we need to c/c or c/f naked draws.

Oddly enough, stacks may be just deep enough for us to pick up a little FE on a lot of turn cards and a semi-bluff may be ok. Sucks he hit the flop so hard, but a lot of one pair hand would be folding turn unimproved if we bomb it hard enough.

Yep, giving it a free pass is so valuable in this spot. Think betting here is really bad and re evaluate your game if you think its better. This is the nut check back spot. There is so much we can do OTT that we cant do on the flop

Fir example we could semi bluff nines, rep king, rep paired bards, get away from paired bards, just call when we have odds, etc. You are value cutting your positional advantage when u bet 5 chips

Imo

You put yourself in an untenable situation. You can't fold and can't call ..wtf
You would like either one but can't do it with a full happy heart. I know how it feels.

Grunch

Why are people so bad at HH's? Do you have $300 or does villain have $300? If it's you then you really shouldn't be raising this on the BTN. If you are deep vs. the limpers then fine disregard.

That said, why are you c-betting this 5-way and why the hell are you betting 80/100? This board smacks the range of limp/callers. You are literally never taking this down on the flop. Take the free card and see a turn.

Once you bet and got raised it's just a standard GII. Not even sure what the question is or why this is a thread tbh.

I usually just toss in $40 OTF, because I want to build a pot but not go to the felt yet. To be honest, it may not make a bit of difference, if you had. These are just coolers.

Like Friday night when I called a raise OTB with J9 clubs. Flop came Tc 8c 4h. He had raised with T8. WTF, next hand.

Your math is wrong. You need 30.3%* equity to call (assuming that H shoves and V always calls). So it's a snap shove once hero c-bets and gets check/raised.

*$100(pre flop) + $80(H's c-bet) + $200(V's C/r) + $200(H shoves) + $80(V calls)=

A final pot of $660. $200/$660=30.3%

From what I've seen of your posts, your table is simply way too loose to ever be raising speculative hands after limpers. Super easy overlimp preflop, imo.

I'd probably just check behind on the flop 5ways. If everyone is really horrible at raise sizing, I might bet a lol $20 if I think that could get me a free card or if a raiser might make it a lol $50 (offering me correct immediate odds to continue). But mostly checking behind this multiway.

I'm too lazy to do the math, but my guess is that we priced ourselves out of the pot (which is a disaster). ETA: Looks like it is a call at this point thanks to putting in so much, and even though the final call (or GII) is correct, overall it's a mistake on the flop (kinda like betting a $1million on the flop and then calling the $1 all-in raise, with the final play being ldo correct but the overall play being horribly bad).

Gyuck,imoG

Yeah, adding $80 to a $100 pot and leaving yourself $200 behind is the primary problem.

Lol yeah did not realize this was 5-handed. Just check it through yes.


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