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10/25/50 Tough spot vs tough player 10/25/50 Tough spot vs tough player

11-27-2018 , 12:21 PM
Villain and I had never played before the session but he plays mostly high stakes limit when it runs but he knows how to play NL too but he has what i would call a limit style. He will limp in EP, prefers to flat over 3betting when the decision is even money

Not sure what my image would be to him but i have a fairly high VPIP so far in the game due to having good cards so far but he's seen me fold a lot post flop due to those hands being no good after the flop.

For example, it was folded to my small bind in one hand, I raised the BB with JJ, he reraised, I reraised, flop was KQxss, and I ended up having to fold to a second street of aggression as I held the Js

Another time it was folded to me in the SB, I raised with AA, villain called, flop was KKx, I played extremely passive and check called 2 small bets and villain had a king so I didn't show my hand

One hand went to show down after I opened mid position with 57 and my flush got there on the river so I've actually folded the big hands without showdown or just plain mucked (I mucked QQ in another hand on a K high flop in a 5 bet pot), and shown down the little ones that made monsters

Anyhoo, OTTH

Effective stacks 5500, straddle on

villain opens to 150 from HJ, hero 3bets to 500 from SB with JJ, villain thinks for a bit and calls

KT9

hero?
10/25/50 Tough spot vs tough player Quote
11-28-2018 , 04:09 PM
Pretty easy bet 500
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11-29-2018 , 04:55 AM
Raise bigger pre. Bet flop 33-45%.
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11-29-2018 , 11:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtimer
Raise bigger pre.
Really? I like the sizing here. We're not giving HJ great odds to call with the bottom of his opening range, it definitely gives us the initiative OOP, and we aren't bloating the pot with JJ. Why do you argue for a bigger 3-bet?

I think we should go for a small cbet here, no more than half pot. We don't mind taking this pot right now, and we don't need to build a large pot here if villain calls.

If raised, I think we can jam to represent AA and make villain fold a K. Another reason to cbet small btw - it gives us better fold equity if villain raises.

Even if we run into a set, we have 2 chances to hit 6 outs because villain can have 99 or TT but not KK.
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11-30-2018 , 06:57 AM
I argue for a bigger sizing as we want to build a pot with our 3bet range, a) because we want to win more money with our good hands and b) because we want to put more pressure on V if we miss.
We really don't want BB to tag along as we could be squeezed and we want to charge V who has flatted a lot of 3bets.

This is poker and we are not in 2003 anymore, "bloating the pot with JJ" doesn't apply here, as our hand is simply way too strong and high up in our distribution. If we face a tough decision, then we analyze it and come to a conclusion.

Also, this is high stakes and we shouldn't vary our 3betting range depending on hands, but rather on the situation (villain, stacks and position mainly). We want to 3bet our 3betting range bigger here, not smaller wit JJ and TT, bigger with AA and KK, because at these limits people will pick up on this and exploit us to the maximum.
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11-30-2018 , 02:19 PM
Let's get to the tough spot part

What's next
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11-30-2018 , 02:23 PM
+1
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11-30-2018 , 02:30 PM
hero bets 400, villain calls

(1800)
turn J

hero checks, villain bets 1300
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11-30-2018 , 03:56 PM
Call.
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12-02-2018 , 09:14 AM
Op are you rolled for these stakes? Most of this seems pretty standard spots.
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12-02-2018 , 12:38 PM
Technically yes I am "rolled" for this spot. I have a lot of life money. Technically "no" as I usually play 5/10 but that game wasn't running this day.

I don't think the turn is that standard. He should have a lot of queens in his range, I don't think it's profitable to rep AQ here, do not have odds to call here if he always folds a paired board OTR. Can't think of a bluff he'd have here either except backdoor clubs with the Ace x of clubs

this does not seem at all standard to me, it's a pretty rare hand, I have a set on a four flush board in a 3bet pot OOP with -odds to draw vs a player who is going to play rivers extremely well. it's not a hand that pops up that often to be std

i don't even think the flop bet is perfectly standard

guessing villains VPIP is no more than 16% pre, flat calling range around 8-9ish%, i.e. he should have a lot of queens when he bets the turn and if he has a hand I beat i think he checks, so call not std here imo

I can't check raise here either, but more importantly, he has to have a hand that can't be check raised or bet a size that's hard to check raise, his sizing here is really solid imo, he's preventing me from calling with a profit, or raising with a semi bluff

Last edited by KT_Purple; 12-02-2018 at 12:43 PM.
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12-02-2018 , 12:46 PM
maybe bet/call was better OTT, I have a lot of Queens too, QQ and AQ i think i 3bet 100% and KQ some of the time too and it disguises my hand a little, I'm pretty face up when i check the t urn

Last edited by KT_Purple; 12-02-2018 at 12:51 PM.
10/25/50 Tough spot vs tough player Quote
12-02-2018 , 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
Technically yes I am "rolled" for this spot. I have a lot of life money. Technically "no" as I usually play 5/10 but that game wasn't running this day.

I don't think the turn is that standard. He should have a lot of queens in his range, I don't think it's profitable to rep AQ here, do not have odds to call here if he always folds a paired board OTR. Can't think of a bluff he'd have here either except backdoor clubs with the Ace x of clubs

this does not seem at all standard to me, it's a pretty rare hand, I have a set on a four flush board in a 3bet pot OOP with -odds to draw vs a player who is going to play rivers extremely well. it's not a hand that pops up that often to be std

i don't even think the flop bet is perfectly standard

guessing villains VPIP is no more than 16% pre, flat calling range around 8-9ish%, i.e. he should have a lot of queens when he bets the turn and if he has a hand I beat i think he checks, so call not std here imo

I can't check raise here either, but more importantly, he has to have a hand that can't be check raised or bet a size that's hard to check raise, his sizing here is really solid imo, he's preventing me from calling with a profit, or raising with a semi bluff
Well. Yeah. Obv. That’s why the hand is standard. Now it’s just a math problem on the turn to calc odds to improve implied odds otr and how often he can be bluffing to make the fall plus or minus ev
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12-02-2018 , 04:02 PM
Op -

Sure each hand is unique in some of the individual factors for the hand but the way you talk about poker this should be an easy math problem or something you've encountered so many times it should be second nature.

Thank you for posting. Please keep at it. Not trying to discourage you at all from doing so.
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12-03-2018 , 08:00 PM
Thanks, more of a sanity check after a bad session.

Hero calls,

river 3c

hero checks, villain shoves, hero folds

i thought it was iffy to actually bet the flop as I don't think he folds any two TBH, it just smacks his range so hard and AQ is probably still calling, I just don't think he folds very often on this board texture and as we can see there isn't really any good turns when he calls the flop so maybe betting is not as standard as it seems OTF
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12-03-2018 , 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
i thought it was iffy to actually bet the flop as I don't think he folds any two TBH
If you don't think he folds any two

Why would it be iffy to bet the flop with jacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple

AQ is probably still calling
Even more of a reason to bet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KT_Purple
as we can see there isn't really any good turns
2,3,4,5....etc...I'm convinced this is a gimmick account now. I'm guessing that's why there is so little traffic on these posts.
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12-04-2018 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
If you don't think he folds any two

Why would it be iffy to bet the flop with jacks?



Even more of a reason to bet!



2,3,4,5....etc...I'm convinced this is a gimmick account now. I'm guessing that's why there is so little traffic on these posts.
I assume OP means that HJ calls with most all of his realistic preflop range. I'm not sure that's right, as HJ very easily could be folding 6s, 7s, or 8s here.

In any case, OP is correct that there are no great turn cards for his hand after HJ calls the flop with the possible exception of a Q. And even with a Q, OP has little chance of betting the turn or river for value.
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12-04-2018 , 10:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolposting2016
Well. Yeah. Obv. That’s why the hand is standard. Now it’s just a math problem on the turn to calc odds to improve implied odds otr and how often he can be bluffing to make the fall plus or minus ev
Using this logic, almost every hand is standard. Debating the assumptions that underlie the math (e.g., how often villain is bluffing, how often will villain fold a better hand, etc.) is really the whole point of posting hands.
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12-04-2018 , 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgcounty
If you don't think he folds any two





2,3,4,5....etc...I'm convinced this is a gimmick account now. I'm guessing that's why there is so little traffic on these posts.
just stop dude. come play the game at MGM you are only down the street

this hand actually happened, and I'm a well known player in the room, ok? thanks for your advice
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