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Medium-High Stakes Full Ring Discussion of $400+ pot-limit and no-limit and 5/10 live texas hold'em full ring games, situations and strategies

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Old 03-21-2020, 04:51 PM   #1
U of M Poker
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10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

I'm the effective stack with $2.1k. 8 handed live 10/20 game 3 weeks ago.

UTG opens $60, Hero flats QsJs in LJ. Villain on Button calls, BB completes. Pot is $250.

Hero has TAG image, Villain is a TAG reg who perceives me as a tight nit.

Flop Qd 8s 3h rainbow. BB checks, UTG checks, hero checks. Villain bets $130. Folds to hero who calls. Pot is $510.

Turn Kc. Completes rainbow obv. Checks through.

River 9s. Hero checks, villain bets $320. Hero c/r to $1100.*
Villain tanks for 3 minutes and folds.*

Because of the UTG raise from a pretty tight standard UTG opener, I think he has AQ firmly in his range as a flat on the Button 70-80% of the time. So I was thinking he has 5-7 combos of AQ that he would play like this. Also he has a number of Kx double backdoor draws that he could bet on flop and check turn at a decent frequency. JT seems unlikely because I block one combo of JTss and he would barrel the turn with it almost 100% after picking up that much equity with no showdown value.*

In real time I was thinking he's pretty capped here and I could blow him off AQ, off a chop of QJ, or maybe even a Kx. Also, its highly unlikely I risk getting re-bluffed because I left only $800 behind. A couple people told me I should of called, but raising here at a low frequency is fine. I like to follow my first instinct/intuition and in game it seemed like the natural play considering our dynamic of my perceived image.*

Thoughts?
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Old 03-23-2020, 10:17 AM   #2
HayathJaveed
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Hi,,

This looks good if you are shoving river and I like if you were playing opponent who is GTO computer but I think you are mistaking about what kind of range he is having when he bets river and I really do not like the small size on your checkraise and I think against human being players this will be losing -EV play.

I think you are mostly trying to bluff him off of his 2pr hands I do not think he has very much AQ here, which if you really think about it he cannot always call all of these 2pr ones because you are still having a lot of JT, and so when you checkraise you mostly are having JT. But I do not think most human players are going to be folding KQ, K8, 98 a lot especially vs smallsizing like the one you are choosing.

So I am thinking it makes sense for you to be bluffing QJ, QT, T9, J9 once on an occasion if V is really really good and thinking but against most real players I think this might not work too well and I really do not like the small sizing I do not think you are fooling anyone with that size

I think you run good this hand!
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Old 03-23-2020, 12:39 PM   #3
U of M Poker
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HayathJaveed View Post
Hi,,

This looks good if you are shoving river and I like if you were playing opponent who is GTO computer but I think you are mistaking about what kind of range he is having when he bets river and I really do not like the small size on your checkraise and I think against human being players this will be losing -EV play.

I think you are mostly trying to bluff him off of his 2pr hands I do not think he has very much AQ here, which if you really think about it he cannot always call all of these 2pr ones because you are still having a lot of JT, and so when you checkraise you mostly are having JT. But I do not think most human players are going to be folding KQ, K8, 98 a lot especially vs smallsizing like the one you are choosing.

So I am thinking it makes sense for you to be bluffing QJ, QT, T9, J9 once on an occasion if V is really really good and thinking but against most real players I think this might not work too well and I really do not like the small sizing I do not think you are fooling anyone with that size

I think you run good this hand!
So you prefer a polarized all in size of $1900? (btw villain is definitely a thinking player, above average, and he perceives me as almost never bluffing)

Pot sized raise was $1470, I know I did size too small, but I was targeting his capped range of AQ, QJ, and Kx that were thin value betting. So with a smaller size I can rep more (2 pair, slow played sets and JT). But at the same token a polar all in raise accomplishes more I guess, because a small raise only gets 1 pair hands to fold. I like the polarization feedback.

Thanks for the advice.
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:24 AM   #4
jdr0317
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by U of M Poker View Post
I'm the effective stack with $2.1k. 8 handed live 10/20 game 3 weeks ago.



UTG opens $60, Hero flats QsJs in LJ. Villain on Button calls, BB completes. Pot is $250.



Hero has TAG image, Villain is a TAG reg who perceives me as a tight nit.



Flop Qd 8s 3h rainbow. BB checks, UTG checks, hero checks. Villain bets $130. Folds to hero who calls. Pot is $510.



Turn Kc. Completes rainbow obv. Checks through.



River 9s. Hero checks, villain bets $320. Hero c/r to $1100.*

Villain tanks for 3 minutes and folds.*



Because of the UTG raise from a pretty tight standard UTG opener, I think he has AQ firmly in his range as a flat on the Button 70-80% of the time. So I was thinking he has 5-7 combos of AQ that he would play like this. Also he has a number of Kx double backdoor draws that he could bet on flop and check turn at a decent frequency. JT seems unlikely because I block one combo of JTss and he would barrel the turn with it almost 100% after picking up that much equity with no showdown value.*



In real time I was thinking he's pretty capped here and I could blow him off AQ, off a chop of QJ, or maybe even a Kx. Also, its highly unlikely I risk getting re-bluffed because I left only $800 behind. A couple people told me I should of called, but raising here at a low frequency is fine. I like to follow my first instinct/intuition and in game it seemed like the natural play considering our dynamic of my perceived image.*



Thoughts?

I fold pre at 100 bb. Nitty? I’d call on BTN though.

Flop: I doubt checking or betting is a huge difference with this hand.

River: I mean. You’re saying you have JTs exactly, right? 88/33 mostly bet flop. And you may not even peel this (definitely not JTcc with no backdoor flush backup). KQ doesn’t xr for value.

So I guess what does your flop peeling range look like? What of that checks river? Given we probably lead river with our KQ, I’m fairly sure most of our range when we check is going to be hands like AQ/QJs/QTs. Maybe some hands like T9s w/ a BDFD or A8s. Then of course when we trap the nuts. My guess is all 3 options are somewhat viable with QJs, but call being the most viable.


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Old 03-28-2020, 03:05 AM   #5
apricotjello
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

we’re 200bb eff here.. pre is fine, 3b or call are both good options and folding is pretty nitty.

flop is good, turn is good too. if you have any sort of leading range you could consider including QJs but I probably wouldn’t lead here.

river i really think we’re repping thin, basically 99/JT maybe KQ or Q9? V (“TAG” being tight pre) bet into four and you called, projecting a lot of strength. i don’t hate a river raise, and we block QQ.

I just prefer a call against a random opponent though. We simply beat most of their bluffs, our raise folds out only AQ/Kx type hands (maybe Q8? do TAGs overcall this pre?), and we get owned the time V gets sticky. We also never win when we’re called.
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Old 03-29-2020, 05:16 AM   #6
Minatorr
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Pre is a big torch

Flop turn are pretty std

River is fine i guess, cant call
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Old 04-07-2020, 12:54 AM   #7
lolposting2016
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Nh
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Old 04-07-2020, 02:45 AM   #8
applesauce123
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

It's never a mistake to turn a hand into a bluff
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Old 04-15-2020, 10:11 PM   #9
acesup81
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

I think you played it right. If your calling because your good alot might as well raise based on your read and construction of the hand. You'll be chopping alot and losing to AQ/89 when your hand is no good so the raise successfully takes care of those according to your image.
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Old 04-23-2020, 10:44 AM   #10
Z06Fanatic1
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Quote:
Originally Posted by apricotjello View Post
we’re 200bb eff here.. pre is fine, 3b or call are both good options and folding is pretty nitty.

flop is good, turn is good too. if you have any sort of leading range you could consider including QJs but I probably wouldn’t lead here.

river i really think we’re repping thin, basically 99/JT maybe KQ or Q9? V (“TAG” being tight pre) bet into four and you called, projecting a lot of strength. i don’t hate a river raise, and we block QQ.

I just prefer a call against a random opponent though. We simply beat most of their bluffs, our raise folds out only AQ/Kx type hands (maybe Q8? do TAGs overcall this pre?), and we get owned the time V gets sticky. We also never win when we’re called.
its 100 bb eff - 2.1k 10/20.
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Old 05-03-2020, 08:54 AM   #11
Badreg2017
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Re: 10/20 NLH- Mistake to turn this hand into a bluff?

Not really a fan, we are targeting a very small range of hands that are both better than our hand and will also fold to a raise. If you think he’s going to massively over-fold to a raise here then I guess it’s fine.
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