$1/$3 9 handed Saturday night @ casino

H: UTG ($300) 33yo white male, 2.5hrs into session. TAG image and is definitely getting respect from the rest of the table, but it's irrelevant as V doesn't know me and just sat down.

V: BB ($330) 40ish asian male, just sat down 2 hands ago. The first hand he was dealt he opened UTG+1 to 25, got one caller in MP, flop came 984r w/ 1 club, V leads $55 and calls off MPs shove for $80 more with AcQc. V tops up to $300. Next hand he opens UTG to $27, gets one caller and takes it down with a c-bet. Another reg chuckles after the hand, shakes his head and refers to V by name, saying something like "Oh boy, here we go....it's (V's name) again.

I take these two hands and the reg's comments to mean V is habitually loose and gambooly. Also worth mentioning is when V bet or raised, he never chopped out an amount. He simply grabbed a handful of red chips without looking and stuck'em in the middle.

The rest of the table is actually quite tight/passive with the exception of one solid TAG on my left and a really bad LAG 3 to my left. I've seen exactly one 3b that wasn't me all session. I've 3b twice so far.

OTTH

H has 8h8s UTG. Hero?

Stacks are such that you don't really want to limp/call. Villain is likely to raise big after a bunch of limpers and you may be squeezed out.

If you think it will work, raise $15 and see if you can set your own price to set mine. If that price is too far off then either limp and see what happens or just fold. You would like to see a flop but 88 isn't so strong you have too.

I'd stick to your game right here. Make your normal raise you regardless, if he 3 bets you, you can assume he has a wide range and you can go to a flop set mining. If you miss and he fires away, just dodge him. If you make your set, you're probably getting paid off. Crazy LAGs come and go. They'll throw chips around but TAGs always outlast them and are still sitting at the table when the LAGs pockets run dry.


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$15 pre.

If 6 people call your $15 raise, and V puts in a hefty 3!, then I would shove.

Limping and evaluating the action is okay, too. But I prefer a raise.

If I go anywhere from $10-$20 and he 3b to $40-$70+ I'm not getting odds to set mine. Stacks are too short.

While this is true, if you're not willing to make this play, you're limiting yourself to only playing uber premium hands when there's the potential of a 3 bet from him, which narrows your range to the whole table killing your perspective value. Limping is an option if you're short stacked, and then let him run up his bill on the flop and turn if you set out, but you forfeit any type of hand control with this line.


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The problem with this situation preflop is the huge amount of guesswork involved. It simply isn't clear what is the best option given the limited information. Villain appears maniac but you can't be sure, 2 hands isn't a meaningful sample. The comment from another player is probably useful information doesn't give you any idea what kind of aggressive he is preflop and post flop. Add in the uncertainty at how the rest of the table is going to react and you are flying blind. Depending on the actual situation fold, limp or some raise could all be best.

This would be a vastly better situation from the button, where villain would already have made his first move. Then you know your odds and have a some idea what the rest of the table is doing.

100% all of this. I had a really hard time coming up with a plan that made any sense. I'm very interested to see what some other posters have to say about this spot and will hold off on further action until we get some more opinions.

I'd just limp. A raise doesn't do as much good cuz big hands will probably flat behind us trying to induce the crazy guy, in which case we'll most likely have to fold to the crazy guys 3bet because we can't be sure we're not up against a flatting monster behind us, and then it simply cost us more to fold. As someone else stated, we don't really have the stack to setmine, but then again we don't want to 4bet shove into the nuts behind us (we're not just playing against the maniac). So I simply attempt to get into a pot for cheap (a meaningless $3), and if I'm forced to fold due to action, whatever, I fold and lose $3, next hand please. If there's a bunch of limps and crazy guy raises, I can flat and then get away from the hand for relatively cheap if a limper limp/reraises; and of course there's a chance it limps around and I get to setmine for cheap with a maniac in the hand.

ETA: Depending on stacks, you might want to consider sitting on this guy's right. If you were to his right with 88 it makes it so easy, cuz you get to see what the maniac does (probably raise) and then get to see if anyone has a big hand by limp/reraising, and then if all you see are flats you have a lot more information on whether a shove will likely be profitable. As stacks become getting deeper you probably don't want to be OOP, so maybe move across the table from him where you'll have the so-so best of both worlds (but not the worst of either world).


GcluelessNLnoobG

I think you're right about limping being best, but I highly doubt JJ+, AQs+, AKo is flatting my raise counting on V to 3b. You know as well as I do that as soon as one person calls a ~4-8bb open it opens up the floodgate of callers behind. Seems too risky to depend on a "possible maniac" 3betting an EP open from a solid TAG. I have to believe they would see my range as very strong and try to get money in now. (this is only his 3rd hand after all)

I wish seat changing was as easy as you make it sound.

I think you're jumping the gun assuming he's a maniac. The only hand we saw him showdown he opened a semi-premium hand, c-bet a dry flop and called off a small jam with equity. It's nothing remarkable except we know he uses big sizings. We don't know what he does with other hands.

I'd just open this hand normally to $12-$15

It's 9-handed and the V is in the BB. You didn't make a plan when you looked down at your 88 because you had no idea V would be in the pot at that point anyway.

You can't change your game up because of one player who you have position on anyway. As stated by others: you're OOP to everyone except for V. Setting the price to set mine at $15 makes little sense with the stacks, and if you get 2-3 callers behind then your cbet on an A or K flop is shot anyway being OOP. I would plan for a limp/rr if V raises the BB after it comes around and you really think he's spewing. If anyone else 3bets you IP then just fold and you lost 1BB.

Otherwise fold pre if he's really throwing you that far off your game. Being UTG with action behind with a bloated pot after you make it $15 pre-flop and he 3bets you isn't the optimal time to attack him as you'll probably have some players behind you that could be calling the 3b as well. You're focusing on him and putting yourself in a poor position vs. everyone else.

You don't need to set mine and you don't have to go to the showdown with a set to show a profit with 88 or any other pocket pair. Flopping sets or flushes is not required to be profitable in the long run. This game is very deep for most people to understand what I'm talking about.

Play your hand as normal. We have very little information on the Villain and all of the hands we have seen he has driven the action so we don't know if he 3 bets or not. If he does 3 bet we call and reevaluate on the flop. Most of the time he probably just calls with worse

Thanks for the feedback so far.



$1/$3 9 handed Saturday night @ casino

H: UTG ($300) 33yo white male, 2.5hrs into session. TAG image and is definitely getting respect from the rest of the table, but it's irrelevant as V doesn't know me and just sat down.

V: BB ($330) 40ish asian male, just sat down 2 hands ago. The first hand he was dealt he opened UTG+1 to 25, got one caller in MP, flop came 984r w/ 1 club, V leads $55 and calls off MPs shove for $80 more with AcQc. V tops up to $300. Next hand he opens UTG to $27, gets one caller and takes it down with a c-bet. Another reg chuckles after the hand, shakes his head and refers to V by name, saying something like "Oh boy, here we go....it's (V's name) again.

I take these two hands and the reg's comments to mean V is habitually loose and gambooly. Also worth mentioning is when V bet or raised, he never chopped out an amount. He simply grabbed a handful of red chips without looking and stuck'em in the middle.

The rest of the table is actually quite tight/passive with the exception of one solid TAG on my left and a really bad LAG 3 to my left. I've seen exactly one 3b that wasn't me all session. I've 3b twice so far.

OTTH

H has 8h8s UTG and goes $12. Folds to loose/passive/completely clueless fish in MP who calls, folds to V who, again without looking, grabs a stack of red with some white on top and sticks it in the middle. Turns out it's $79.

Hero?

Shove or fold. I'm folding because he needs to be bluffing a very high percentage of the time in order for a shove to be profitable since our equity is garbo if he calls us. Also concerning is that he was in the big blind getting a good price and still elected to make a big raise. I fold and look for a better spot.

In lose games I'm limping 88, 99, 1010 and AK. Occasionally I'll also limp AA and KK from early position hoping someone directly after me raises and a few others call so I cam jam. I figure I'm about 40 percent vs their calling range with the first 4 hands and with fold equity I'm pretty sure this play is plus ev. If it doesn't work out like that ill set mine. Now that Their' s a raise to 79 you have no fold equity or odds to set mine so this has to be a fold.

Make a raise to something like 10-15. As played, just get it in there and feel good about it.

If you are playing scared money and/or for some reason cannot rebuy if you lose, fold preflop.

Although it's only been 3 hands, everything we have seen so far (each hand he has opened big, first hand he cbet and then got it in with nothing but overcards, a reg stating something to the affect of everyone strap on their seatbelts which is quite telling, etc.) suggests that we should probably be fine with getting it in preflop. This is obviously going to be a high variance session, so if you're not prepared for that, you might have to not open or even simply dump hands like 88. Or perhaps even change tables.

Gstrapontheseatbelt,imoG

Stuff.

I'm fine with the play so far and I shove now, but I don't mind the variance. If it will tilt you or you'd have to leave early (lol), just fold.

$12-15 pre. $12 if you can get away with it and it’s not seen as a sizing tell.

Just rip it in. Not much thought involved in this one.

Open to 10.
The guys sizing the first few hands is all I'd need to see to comfortably gii w 88.

Extremely reassuring, thanks guys.

Hero shoves after a few seconds. Clueless fish folds, V tanks for a minute, says "I have a good hand to crack your aces" and calls.

JsTs>88. I pull 4 green chips and 2 black chips out of my pocket and reload.

The VERY NEXT HAND:

One mp limp, folds to same V in SB who goes $25. H has 8h8c. I go $90, limper folds, V calls.

Flop ($180) 622r

V leads $125, I jam, he calls quickly and I'm thinking "FML he has like 99 or TT" I say "you actually have a big pair this time?" he says "it's not big"

Turn K, River T....V tables 77

Seatbelts fastened.

Nice. Love these players!