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Basic spot with A-hi Basic spot with A-hi

04-14-2008 , 02:06 AM
Villain is the typical loose/passive type that raises a decent amount of his buttons and likes to bet when he has the lead. What kind of flops do you call down with A-rag on and why?

Poker Stars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 2 players
2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked

Pre Flop: Hero is BB with 4 A
BTN/SB raises, Hero calls

Flop: (4 SB) J 9 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN/SB bets, Hero folds
04-14-2008 , 02:50 AM
This is a tough spot because your equity isn't great and you are out of position. Even a mediocre player is going to own you pretty good a lot of the time. It sounds like he's not much of a thinking player, so he's probably going to bet his whole range on the turn. Then he'll probably check behind worse hands on the river, but he might fire again without anything depending on how the board comes out and whatever thought process goes through his head. Without knowing this thought process, though, you are left in a guessing game.

All in all, I think this is a close fold. If you had a decent backdoor draw and/or a better kicker that could play, say A 8 , then I think you should call with the intention of showing down often. (But I'd probably fold if he fires again on, say, a K turn in this situation.)
04-14-2008 , 05:15 AM
Why can't you just peel and see what he does on the turn?
04-14-2008 , 06:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretelöo
Why can't you just peel and see what he does on the turn?
yeah, seriously. you have way too much hand to be giving up right now imo.
04-14-2008 , 07:44 AM
Against a 40% openraising range you have 35% equity.

If he bets every street every time you need 34% to go on profitabely.
If he plays turn and river perfect (knows your holding) you need 48%.
If he always bets the turn and plays the river perfect you need 40%
Assuming that he doesnt play perfect, and you can make some good folds or raises 37% is a good estimate to go with.

So this is a close one and depends on his opening range. If he raises 47% or more you can c/c.
04-14-2008 , 08:08 AM
I'd take one off here too and either fold or call down from the turn depending on the cards that fall off and his tendencies to barrell.

@Der_Ulek
Good to see a succesful midstakes player contribute!
EDIT: How do you determine what equity you need when villain "plays perfect"?

Last edited by acehole60; 04-14-2008 at 08:16 AM.
04-14-2008 , 09:19 AM
If he plays perfectly you either lose 2,5BB or you win 2,75BB (if button raises and SB folds, 0,25BB deadmoney). So your odds are 2,75:2,5, you need 2,5/(2,5 + 2,75) % equity, which is 48%. If were talking about a SB openraise you get 2,5:2,5 and need 50% equity.
04-14-2008 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fretelöo
Why can't you just peel and see what he does on the turn?
'Cause this type of villain fires 100% of his range on the turn imo. He's also the type who bets bad A-his (that could beat mine) on the river without considering if it's for value or bluff or what.
04-14-2008 , 02:07 PM
If he fires 100% of his range on the turn, call the turn too. I think against almost everyone you need to peel the flop and see what they do on the turn in this spot.
04-14-2008 , 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetjazz
This is a tough spot because your equity isn't great and you are out of position.
look at the advantages of being out of position, the villain will fire multiple streets on a bluff. I think the good cancels out the bad when you take a passive line.
04-14-2008 , 04:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *TT*
look at the advantages of being out of position, the villain will fire multiple streets on a bluff. I think the good cancels out the bad when you take a passive line.
level? i think all can agree that you would prefer to be in position here.
04-14-2008 , 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der_Ulek
If he plays perfectly you either lose 2,5BB or you win 2,75BB (if button raises and SB folds, 0,25BB deadmoney). So your odds are 2,75:2,5, you need 2,5/(2,5 + 2,75) % equity, which is 48%. If were talking about a SB openraise you get 2,5:2,5 and need 50% equity.
yeah, it's good that you are thinking about this but even if he plays "perfectly" against us we can fold when theu turn/river cards come bad. Plus one of us has to be awful if he never bluffs here.

Also, in another post you showed our range vs. 40% opener. In that case I agree that this could be a fold. But in OP guy was opening much more--this is huhu after all--75% for a loose/passive?
04-14-2008 , 04:42 PM
Check out my last sentence in the first post. "If he raises 47% or more you can c/c."

      
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