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Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May)

05-09-2024 , 03:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Langdon
I like MB. long walk from the parking garage to the rooms but other than that it's a nice hotel and casino
It's a long walk everywhere. Went to a convention there once, almost wished I had a rental car and could drive it inside.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 10:33 AM
Welcome to the US, Whale! Looking forward to the stories.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pig4bill
It's a long walk everywhere. Went to a convention there once, almost wished I had a rental car and could drive it inside.
I'm thinking about renting one of those 'Hoveround' type of carts, I'm a sucker for walking. Went to the SHOT show one time and walked so much it felt like someone beat the bottoms of my feet with a ball peen hammer.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 05:39 PM
With this being Vegas and me being jetlagged AF, I woke up around 4am this morning, fully awake after 6.5 hours of sleep. I reveled in the enjoyment of the first morning in Vegas, and chilled for an hour before heading downstars to play a bit of Video Poker. Did that for an hour without losing much, then eventually wandered outside for a bit through Luxor and Excalibur (too early for the tram, which doesn't open until 10am).





Eventually I did however make my way over to the Horseshoe, for an alternative start to the poker playing this trip. I entered their 9am $100 tournament, which got a modest amount of 31 entries. In general it seemed pretty quiet in the poker room; no cash games got going until around 9:30am it seemed.

My table was super soft with many OMCs, and although I could have ramped up the aggression in 1-2 spots I still had no problem building a stack. So when the first break (and end of late registration) arrived, I had built up from 20k starting to around 35k.



Only 22 players remained after the break and the eliminations were coming super fast. The blinds were however increasing super fast as well, and sadly I got quite card-dead. Mostly folding actually gave me a seat at the final table though, although I only came in with 25k at 2000-4000-4000 blinds. I expected to bust early, but that actually did not happen. I got a push through with AJ over a limp (he said he had 33), but then found nothing playable and chose to go through the blinds again.

With 7 left I was down to around 3 big blinds, but then got in JT from the cutoff, which beat the big blinds J6o. I also got two more shoves through this round, and suddenly I was sitting in a much better position. Especially as people were getting eliminated left and right, and before you know it we were down to 5 and ITM.

One more player got eliminated the very next hand, and we were down to 4. Blinds were completely crazy by this time, and had gone up to 8000-16000-16000. I had to fold my UTG-hand (utter trash), and then put in 35% of my stack in blinds and antes next hand. It folded to SB and he min-raised. I have 64o, and actually chose to fold. Yes, I have a lot of my stack in the middle already, but the hand is so bad and likely is doing very bad against an OMCs raising range. I was sure I could find better spots.

A better spot came the very next hand, when it folded to me in SB. I got in my remaining 40k with KTo, only to hear the Big Blind snap-call and turn over AA. And I only got halfway there, on the (T-8-4-J-3) runout.

4th place for $246 USD. I'll take it, considering how short I was at various points in the tournament. But I like the patience I impliemented, and I strongly believe I would be a massive favorite in the field if I played that tourney every day - even with the 15 minute blind levels and crap-shoot structure.

Caesars have a 5x Tier Credit promotion going these days (until 12th I believe), so I activated that one and played some Video Poker at Horseshoe before heading back to Mandalay Bay.

Plan was to get a quick nap in before tonight, but after tossing and turning in bed without falling asleep I just gave up that venture. Think I will head to the gym now and energize myself that way instead. And I will obviously find a cash game a bit later today.

Tournaments:

Profit/loss: +$146 USD (1 played)

Last edited by BigWhale; 05-09-2024 at 05:44 PM.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 05:49 PM
Nice cash in the tourney. I am curious given the fast structure, how many hours of play did you have before you got knocked out?
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 05:55 PM
Good start!
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 06:33 PM
I believe they run these tournaments every 2 hours, 9-11-1-3-5-7-9 maybe 11pm?) and the previous tournament is usually just finishing up (maybe 1 or 2 levels of overlap) when the new one starts. This is average, non-WSOP time, 30-40 runners. I've played there many times, and enjoy these tournaments. Figure 2.5 - 3 hours to get to a winner/deal.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rppoker
Nice cash in the tourney. I am curious given the fast structure, how many hours of play did you have before you got knocked out?
I was eliminated around 3 hours and 15 minutes after the tournament started.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-09-2024 , 11:58 PM
that's a good start to the trip. glad to hear you played well
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWhale
Parking garage won't be an issue, unless I win enough money to buy a car 😀
Pic of OP:

Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWhale
4th place for $246 USD. I'll take it, considering how short I was at various points in the tournament. But I like the patience I impliemented, and I strongly believe I would be a massive favorite in the field if I played that tourney every day - even with the 15 minute blind levels and crap-shoot structure.
Nice job!

Quote:
Caesars have a 5x Tier Credit promotion going these days (until 12th I believe), so I activated that one and played some Video Poker at Horseshoe before heading back to Mandalay Bay.
If you're not Diamond already, you might want to look into what it would take to get your tier credits up to 15,000. Take into account the daily bonuses as well. You'll retain that status through the end of next year. You get to jump lines (mostly) and won't have to pay resort fees.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 03:52 AM
Nice TR.
My first solo vegas trip was in 2019. It was ok, but quite a bit boring. Spend tons of hours in the poker room.
I came to the decision, that solo trips are not my kind of holidays. But its a good expirience.

Did I learn from that?
No.
Next solo trip at 04.07., Main-Event time :-)
Starting from germany.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 08:20 AM
I had a 13 day solo trip. Got extremely depressed towards the end
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 09:42 AM
Good morning! I was too tired to update the thread yesterday evening, so doing it now after having woken up at 5:40 am. Not too terrible for a second day in Vegas.

After updating yesterday and (unsuccessfully) trying to take a nap, I instead went down to the free gym here (the 'Cardio Room') for a quick workout. That felt good, but didn't quite energize me as much as I hoped. I was starting to feel a bit tired again after getting back to the room, but instead of taking a late nap (which is maybe what I should have done), I forced myself out to play a session. I ended up not going very far, and just jumped on this one:



Took the free tram for MB over to Excalibur, and walked briefly through NYNY and over to MGM Grand. There was 6 games going and a small list when I arrived, but within 2 minutes a new game was started. I bought in for $300 in this no-max $1-$2 game, and although I was feeling a bit tired, I must say that I felt pretty alert and good with my thought process at the table.

First intersting spot is when it folds to an Asian on the button, and he raised to $15 - which is pretty big given the blinds and only 2 players left to act. SB folds, and I find no less than AA in BB. This guy had seem slightly sticky pre so far from the few hands played, so I 3-bet to $57. Sadly he just folded quickly, so he was probably on a steal.

Then I raise K9dd from 2nd position to $10. We were playing 7-handed, and this is actually an open from a chart-thing I have on my phone (checked it afterwards). I get however no less than 5 callers, and the flop comes A-8-7 one diamond. Interesting one as I have many good backdoor cards, and I think I might have started a bluff here if it were 3 or 4 ways. With this many players however, I am pretty sure someone has to have TP. And it's probably gonna take multiple bullets to get them off it. As such, I just checked, and folded when a bet and a call came in behind me.

Then I raise AJo from 2nd position an orbit or two later, still 7-handed. Only the two blinds call, so we go 3-ways to A-T-9, with the latter two in clubs. I have Jc in my hand for what it's worth. They check to me, and I bet $16 as there is a lot that can call me on this board (thus I should have gone $20 at least). SB calls, and BB folds.

Turn comes a red 5, and he now leads for $12. This seems extremely weak to me, like a flushdraw or another draw of some kind trying to set it's own price. So I decided to raise the turn and get more value now, with the idea of likely checking back river. I make it $46, and he hems and haws for a bit before calling.

River is another red 5, thankfully not the same one otherwise we would have to ask for a new deck! He surprisingly leads again, this time for $20. I honestly considered raising here as well, because this line is so strange and I really do think he is only trying to get to showdown cheaper. That might indicate a smaller Ace, but would one of these really call a raise at the end? I didn't really think so, and I also do note that 5x of clubs are available. I strongly doubt he takes that sizing with it, but you never know. So I ended up just calling, and beat a very goofy played KTo. Maaaaybe I could have bumped it up to $45 or something silly at the river, but I really like that I managed to find the raise on the turn.

I also win a pot with AK shortly after, raising to $10 from cutoff and getting calls from all the 3 players behind me. A-8-2 with the latter two in diamonds seems decent, so I bet $25 when they check to me. BTN calls first to act, and the other two folds. Turn is a 5, bringing in a second flushdraw. I bet for $62 this time (into $90), as there are many worse Aces that can call (some of them suited with flush draws), and if he is on a pure flush draw I have to charge him a bit. I actually think closer to pot would have been better here. Either way, he thinks about it for a long time before folding.



Good start then, but then I lose 1-2 tiny pots before finding 88 from 2nd position. I make it $10 again, only to see 4 callers. Flop is 7-4-3 two diamonds, which is drawheavy but overall not too bad. The blinds check to me, and I bet $21 which is too small. Granted, this multiway one can favor a small sizing, but my focus should be to get more value from all the draws and 7x etc. Two folds, before SB (middle aged Asian) makes it $65. BB folds, and it's back to me.

Interesting line, as my bet into 4 people should look very strong and his line is even stronger. That said, if he ever does this with just 7x to 'find out where he is at', then I think calling here will quickly let me know what is up on the turn. So that is what I do, and we see a 6 on the river. Four to a straight out there now, but my opponent is not deterred and bet $90 with around $110 behind.

Although I still have an overpair and have picked up a gutshot now, I think it's fairly obvious he has something strong here. I do think he sometimes will call from SB with 56s or 67s, and he also have all the sets. So I make the fold.

Win some back when I raise A5hh to $10 from early pos (3rd maybe), and once again get 4 callers. Maybe I should have sized up my preflop-raises, but to be fair the table was generally passive and seldom went super multiway. Either way, we see A-8-3 one heart. I decided to check this one for pot-control and slight deception, but obviously never folding if someone bets. So that is what I do, and it checks around.

Turn comes the 9h, and it checks to me. Seems fine to build up the pot now that I have a draw to the nuts, and hopefully get called by 9x and other flush draws. I bet $20 and everyone folds.

Then there are 3 limps to me, and I peek down at AA in the Big Blind again. I raise to $15, and only a player in MP calls. This is the guy with the weird KTo hand from earlier; a MABG (middle aged black guy) who seems a bit sticky and fishy. We go heads-up to 9-3-5, and I start with another bet of $15 again.

He calls and turn comes a 4. I bet $40, and he thinks about it for a bit before calling. Strongly think he has 9x in this spot, and I start thinking in my head about his possible kickers. River is a T, which is one of those that he could have. That said, I don't think it matters a lot. He has around $160 behind, and pot is $135 or so. I considered an overbet jam, but at least there and then I didn't think he could call a massive sizing. So I settled on $62, although in hindight wish I had gone around $80 at least. He doesn't snap call, but doesn't take too long either before putting out calling chips. I show him the Aces, and he just nods and says 'nice hand' without showing.

Nothing too much exciting happened after this. The above guy left the game shortly after, another player left, and eventually the game started breaking. I took that as my sign to leave as well, as I was pretty exhaused. But definitely not complaining about an $155 win after 2.5 hours of play.



I made it back to Mandalay Bay quickly, played a little bit of VP (no success, but no huge loss), and then went almost straight to bed. Think I was asleep around 9:30pm, so hardly living like a rock star out here.

But overall I am very happy with the start to the trip, although I still need to work on some sizings in spots. Let us see what today brings!

Cash Games:

Hours played: 2h 30min
Won/loss: +$155 USD
Hourly rate: $77.5 USD

Tournaments:

Profit/loss: +$146 USD (1 played)
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 09:58 AM
Well played! Thanks again for your hand histories, and putting the thought process in there. I find them quite interesting and educational.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 04:39 PM
Yes, I always enjoy poker strat content
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 07:26 PM
Appreciate the feedback, guys! More hands below.

---------------------------------------------

After updating the TR this morning, I went for a quick trip to the gym:



Feeling very refreshed afterwards, I quickly got ready, and after a little bit of VP here at Mandalay Bay, I took an Uber over to Venetian.



After getting a quick 20 massage there in the Grand Canal Shoppes (felt amazing), I quickly got a set in a new $1/$3 game that started up. Table was very passive and limp-happy, although certainly not terrible or way too tight.

My first involvement came when there was 4 limps, and I find QQ on the button. I make it $20 and two of the limpers call. Flop comes A-4-6, and after the first limper checks the second bets out $65. Pretty much pot, and I don't think I can continue against that sizing. I fold, and the first limper also follows suit. The guy who bets out shows an Ace while raking in the pot.

Then I raise KTdd to $12 from second position, and get 3 callers. Flop comes pretty terrible, with A-6-8 two hearts, no diamonds. It checks through. 2h on the turn, a guy bets and I fold. Think starting a bluff on this board against 3 opponents would be pretty bad/spewy.

Very next hand I get AQ (black cards), and make it $12 again. 3rd position calls, and SB calls. Flop comes Q-7-6 all diamonds, and SB checks to me. I bet $25, and only the initial caller continues. We see Ad on the turn, which gives me two pair but puts 4 to a flush out there. Opponent, a black guy in his 30s, bets out $25. Very small sizing, and this guy have said some things that makes it very clear he is new to live poker. So I call.

River is a random black 4, and after I check he bets $60, leaving himself around $10 behind. I was tempted to call, but I just think that I will get shown a flush way too often here. I don't think he will dare to bet a ton of flushes except Kd and maybe Jd, but there are still many combos containing these out there. So I make a reluctant fold, and he does not show. So I guess we will never know.

I add on $100 more and continue losing. Most interesting spot, which I probably misplayed, was when I raise AJo to $15 over a limp. I get no less than 4 callers behind, and we see the A-5-4 rainbow flop. Seems fairly safe, but this multiway I chose to go very small with only betting $20 into $75 or so. Two players in the field call.

Turn in an 8, which fills in the obvious draw in 67. I therefore decided to check, but I think this a mistake. I should rather bet something like $50 and continue to charge worse Aces, and if someone has a straight I will probably hear from them.

It does however check around, and the river is a 6. It's 4 to a straight out there, but I sort-of dismissed that option after turn checked through. So I bet $41 to target the few Ax-combos that does not have two pair - which is way too optimistic as we are only talking about AT and A9 really. A better play is probably to check, and if it goes check-check-check I will win 99% of the time. But if someone bets, I am likely beat.

As it was I bet, the first player folded, and the second player went in the tank. He seemed unsure, before finally grabbing his remaining $100 and sloppily throw them over the line. I am getting pretty good potodds here ($276 in the pot, and only $59 more to call). But really, can I be good here one out of 5 times or whatever? Seems extremely unlikely, and I also think opponent's behavior was an act. So I folded. I should however have bet the turn, and as played I should have checked the river.

Lose a few more small ones and have to add on another $100. Then there is a limp for $3 from UTG, and I make it $15 with 66 from 3rd position.A new guy to the table calls, and the limper calls. Flop comes K-J-6 two diamonds, which is pretty amazing as I have the virtual nuts. UTG checks, and I start out with a bet of $25.

I want to make it clear that this is a sizing mistake; with pot being $49 I can easily bet $35-$40 here and get the same result. I unblock top pair, which is great, and there are so many hand combination that will continue to practically any sizing here. I sort-of have that idea in my head, but I am too used to bet smaller and don't always think hard enough about what a 'big' bet is.

Either way, back to the action. The first caller actually makes it $65, and I am fist-pumping inside while thinking on how to proceed. Then the guy from UTG starts asking how much the raise was before announcing all-in! I give it 5 seconds and announce all-in too (for slightly less). The third guy sighs but pretty much insta-call as well.

I figure I have to hold against a huge draw here, but that was not the case. UTG shows KJo, I show my set, and the third guy only has AK (no 3-bet pre, and massive overplay post given action). Turn is a 4 and river is a T, and just like that I drag in a massive pot well over $800 USD. Gotta love that.



I play a fun hand shortly after against the KJ-guy, when there are 5 limps and I find 99 in BB. I raise to $21, and he is the only caller. Flop comes A-T-J, which I think is amazing for my percieved range. I decide to go bet-bet-bet here unless he tells me otherwise, as his range for limp-calling should have trouble with holding on here. Yes, he did limp-call with KJo earlier, but unless he has something like JT here I should be good to go.

I bet $20, he calls. Turn comes a random 4, I bet $55 and he folds. It's so fun taking down pots like that, where the cards in my actual hand don't really matter that much. The board is just so good, and opponent so rarely can have a big piece here.

Then the AK-guy straddles UTG, two players call, and I complete for $3 more from BB with 97o. The straddler wasn't really a guy to attack dead money, so I almost viewed this as a limped pot where I check my option from BB. And he does indeed check.

Flop comes 9-8-6 two clubs, and SB checks. I considered leading, but check, and it checks around. Turn is a 2, and SB now leads for $15. I call, and the other two folds. River is a 5, so we make the straight. He checks, and I decide on a bet of $37. Maybe I could have gotten even higher, but when he checks I doubt he is super strong. He does think about it for a while, but ends up calling - which is good news.

After 3-betting QQ a bit later and taking it down pre, we have a pretty good stack:



I did however lose a bit after that, first when I raise Q9dd to $12 from lojack. Button and BB call, and we go 3-ways to Q-2-4 one diamond. BB checks, and I was going to bet but then noticed BTN make a motion as if reaching for chips. So I changed my mind and checked it over to him, only to see him check behind.

Turn comes 5c, which puts a backdoor flushdraw out there. BB checks, and I bet $20. To my surprise, they both call. I realize I probably need to be cautious on some rivers, and the 6c seems to fit the bill. BB check, I check, praying that it checks down and that I win. Not to be however, as BTN fires out $100 (into $97). Massive bet, and I strongly assume he made a flush. So I have to fold when it gets back to me. The mistake here was to not bet flop however.

I was going to leave after my UTG-hand, but then I find 99 in the hole. Have to play that one, so we make it $12. Once again, a cascade of callers (5 in total). Flop comes A-T-8 two hearts, and there are too many opponents here to do anything but check. It checks through.

Same happens on a 6 turn, although I briefly considered betting. That said, any Tx will likely call and I cannot beat that. So we go to the 9 river. Any 7 have a straight, and once again I think I make a mistake by betting when it checked to me. And especially for $46, which is more than half pot. With no one having shown much interest here, I need to go much lower to get paid I think.

Instead a new Asian player to the table min-clicks it back to $92, as people often do here in Vegas.I am pretty sure he is gonna show me a straight, but for only $46 more I don't think I can do anything but call. So I flick it in, and he shows QJo as expected.

I was going to leave anyway, so that is what I do even though it sucks losing over $100 in the last hand. But overall it was a good session, where I cashed out as a $278 USD winner. This time I do however think that I made two very similar mistakes - both involving betting out for value on 4-straight boards when I don't have a straight myself.

Now I'm gonna take a very quick trip to the Mandalay Bay pool, and then decide where to play tonight.

Cash Games:

Hours played: 5h 15 min
Won/loss: +$433 USD
Hourly rate: $82.5 USD

Tournaments:

Profit/loss: +$146 USD (1 played)
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 07:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWhale
My first involvement came when there was 4 limps, and I find QQ on the button. I make it $20 and two of the limpers call. Flop comes A-4-6, and after the first limper checks the second bets out $65. Pretty much pot, and I don't think I can continue against that sizing. I fold, and the first limper also follows suit. The guy who bets out shows an Ace while raking in the pot.
So they limp-call and then donkbet big, enabling you to fold your worse hands, and call with hands that usually crush them. Live players can be so kind sometimes.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 08:18 PM
Mandalay Bay Pool complex. Bit windy + maybe not entirely warm enough today for perfect pool weather. But water feels quite refreshing:



Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 09:18 PM
Your hand history detail is phenomenal. Do you write down notes on each hand after the hand concludes, or do you have total recall and write it all down once the session is over?
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-10-2024 , 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWhale
Mandalay Bay Pool complex. Bit windy + maybe not entirely warm enough today for perfect pool weather. But water feels quite refreshing:

The sand is cool. I knew they had a "sand beach", but I didn't know they had so much.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-11-2024 , 01:29 AM
<strat talk>

I think you’re frequently making a mistake with the sizing you use. When you have initiative, you’re often c-betting way too small, 25-40% of pot.

I get that you want more weaker hands to make a mistake and continue, but in passive, multi-way games, you’re just going to give fish better odds with each other to outdraw you.

When you’re betting for value, it’s completely fine to size up to 80% of pot, or more. They’ll still try to run you down, and it sets you up to play for stacks when we’re betting for fat value.

Not to get too in the weeds, but to me, the biggest determinant of my cbet size (as a % of pot) is flop texture. In general, you can c-bet much less on dry flops, and want to size up on wet, draw heavy flops.

An example: Open TT to $15, three callers, $60 pot, flop K-7-2 rainbow. Not a lot of speculative hands can peel here. You can easily accomplish getting value vs 2nd pair, folding out A/Q/J overcard draws vs us, while still pot controlling and getting to showdown vs Kx, for a $20 cbet (1/3 pot)

Now the other example: Open 9s8s to $15, 3 callers, $60 pot, flop 9-8-6s. Here you want to size up BIG. I’d bet at least $40, maybe $50+. This flop connects with soooo many hands, sooo many draws will continue for almost any price. We’re ahead most of the time. There are lots of runouts where we want to get stacks in, and betting bigger helps accomplish that.

</strat talk>

Last edited by TJ Eckleburg12; 05-11-2024 at 01:37 AM.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-11-2024 , 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
&lt;strat talk&gt;

I think you’re frequently making a mistake with the sizing you use. When you have initiative, you’re often c-betting way too small, 25-40% of pot.

I get that you want more weaker hands to make a mistake and continue, but in passive, multi-way games, you’re just going to give fish better odds with each other to outdraw you.

When you’re betting for value, it’s completely fine to size up to 80% of pot, or more. They’ll still try to run you down, and it sets you up to play for stacks when we’re betting for fat value.

Not to get too in the weeds, but to me, the biggest determinant of my cbet size (as a % of pot) is flop texture. In general, you can c-bet much less on dry flops, and want to size up on wet, draw heavy flops.

An example: Open TT to $15, three callers, $60 pot, flop K-7-2 rainbow. Not a lot of speculative hands can peel here. You can easily accomplish getting value vs 2nd pair, folding out A/Q/J overcard draws vs us, while still pot controlling and getting to showdown vs Kx, for a $20 cbet (1/3 pot)

Now the other example: Open 9s8s to $15, 3 callers, $60 pot, flop 9-8-6s. Here you want to size up BIG. I’d bet at least $40, maybe $50+. This flop connects with soooo many hands, sooo many draws will continue for almost any price. We’re ahead most of the time. There are lots of runouts where we want to get stacks in, and betting bigger helps accomplish that.

&lt;/strat talk&gt;

Clearly everyone’s playing style is different but I agree. With over 1000 hours at 1/3 in Vegas I can say for certainty that 80% cbet is the key always. I will go as far as to say that 95% of the time if I am the preflop aggressor I will cbet 80% into ANY flop if checked to. People at 1/3 are so incredibly weak, need to exploit them for maximum value or make them fold for maximum value.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-11-2024 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJ Eckleburg12
<strat talk>

I think you’re frequently making a mistake with the sizing you use. When you have initiative, you’re often c-betting way too small, 25-40% of pot.

I get that you want more weaker hands to make a mistake and continue, but in passive, multi-way games, you’re just going to give fish better odds with each other to outdraw you.

When you’re betting for value, it’s completely fine to size up to 80% of pot, or more. They’ll still try to run you down, and it sets you up to play for stacks when we’re betting for fat value.

Not to get too in the weeds, but to me, the biggest determinant of my cbet size (as a % of pot) is flop texture. In general, you can c-bet much less on dry flops, and want to size up on wet, draw heavy flops.

An example: Open TT to $15, three callers, $60 pot, flop K-7-2 rainbow. Not a lot of speculative hands can peel here. You can easily accomplish getting value vs 2nd pair, folding out A/Q/J overcard draws vs us, while still pot controlling and getting to showdown vs Kx, for a $20 cbet (1/3 pot)

Now the other example: Open 9s8s to $15, 3 callers, $60 pot, flop 9-8-6s. Here you want to size up BIG. I’d bet at least $40, maybe $50+. This flop connects with soooo many hands, sooo many draws will continue for almost any price. We’re ahead most of the time. There are lots of runouts where we want to get stacks in, and betting bigger helps accomplish that.

</strat talk>
Thanks. Yes, I am obviously aware of all of this, especially what you are mentioning in regards to sizing relative to board texture. It's just the execution sometimes that is the issue.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote
05-11-2024 , 11:14 AM
Good morning from Las Vegas! Today I didn't wake up before 07:20 am, so I am clearly starting to get over the worst jetlag.

After visiting the pool yesterday (and a shower etc. in between), I noticed that they had open seating here at Mandalay Bay for cash games (2 tables running, but got busier later). So I figured why not, and plunked down with a $300 stack.

(there are many reasons for why not, but I will touch on those at the end)

I was generally very card-dead for long periods, which was a bit boring, but we did find a few interesting spots. Sadly I messed up the first of them, when I finally after 30 minutes or so found KTo from 2nd position. Bit light, but made it $10 (7-handed), and only the Big Blind called. For what it's worth, this is a $1-$2 game.

The dealer provides the 8-7-T flop, and opponent immediately leads out for $10. I wasn't entirely sure what to make of this, but I called. Turn is a 5, and he leads out $10 again. My mind immediately noticed the same bet, and I put him on a hand like 9x (98? 97? 9T?). All hands I can get a ton of value from.

... so only God knows why I just called again. I clearly recognized it in game, but my brain just didn't commute with my fingers to execute. I honestly don't know what this happens; except maybe something I allured to in another TR many years ago (yes, I am sick enough to remember details like this) - when I get a bit tired, my brain goes into a bit too much auto-pilot.

River is a Q, and he bets $10 again. Same bet 3 times in a row, gotta love live poker. Also here I could have found a raise, although I really think turn is the obvious spot. I called and beat the obvious 98o, sigh.

Then I raise QJdd to $12 from SB over an early position limp, and he is the only caller. We see 6-6-4 two diamonds. I bet $15, and he folds.

A few hands later we find AK from UTG and make it $10 again. Only 3rd position calls, and the flop comes J-7-7. Not amazing, but not terrible. I bet $11 to fold out cards that have some equity but that didn't connect particularly well, plus also maybe small pocket pairs. He calls quickly however.

Turn is a K, so now we have to get value from Jx instead. I bet $25, which is not too big and should entice him to stick around. He thinks for a long time for this game, but folds.



Then I get an annoying spot when it folds to me on BTN, and I make it only $8 with TT. Game was quite passive, and I wanted some action at least. BB calls (same player from last hand), and we see Q-5-6 two diamonds. He checks, and I bet $9 to target pairs below my TT. Maybe this is a spot to go a bit bigger given drawy board though, although I certainly don't want to just build up the pot for Qx (which will call any sizing).

Opponent actually check-raises to $23, which confused me a bit. Maybe I should fold just here as I have a very difficult hand to continue with (having 67s would be better than TT here), but in game the raise didn't quite make sense. So I called to see what he does on the turn.

Turn is Ad, and he actually checks. Here is a good spot to make what Bart Hanson calls the 'variable turn sizing' I think (which is not really variable at all). I can easily have made a flush here, or represent the Ace against likely not a very thinking player (older guy around 60). So what do I do?

You guessed it, I checked back. Sigh. River is a K, and he now bets $45. This actually confused me a bit, because unless he was slow playing a flush on turn I just don't see what he is repping here. I thought about it for one minutes, and was actually very close to finding the call with 4th pair.

However, I eventually folded as there are very few bluffs here, unless he has 78 no diamonds, or made a play with a random 5 or 6 on flop. Granted, my hand does not look very strong when I check back turn. But we have to make a lot of assumptions about opponent to make this call. Both that he is able to check-raise the flop with weaker portions of his range, and also that he is able to recognize weakness and pounce on it on river. And I just didn't think he would be capable of that. Regardless, I should bet the turn once I decide to continue, as that makes the hand so much easier to play after.

After that I won or lost a few small pots, none very interesting at all. Can run quickly through some below.

Raise KJo to $10, two callers. T-T-5, I bet $13 and they both fold.

Raise AKdd to $10 from UTG, BB calls. A-5-5, bet $8 and he folds.

Raise 77 to $10 from UTG, three callers. A-Q-8 two hearts, not quite what I wanted. SB leads out and BB calls, I fold.

Limped pot, I complete SB with Q7dd and BB checks. A-Q-T, checks around. 7 turn, I bet $5, two players calls. J river, which is terrible. I check, check, 3rd player bets $15. I fold, other guy calls. The bettor had limped in KJo, and slow played it, so river saved me money.

After that was super card dead for an hour, not finding anything to play. Got tired of the boring game, and cashed out after 2h45min, down $16 USD.

Result is whatever, but I am not happy with two of the hands - especially the KTo one. As I have been saying for years, the 'same bet' tell is the absolute biggest sign of weakness, and I need to pounce on it. And squeezing out $30-$40 more in this hand would have made the session a small winner. I pretty much knew his range when he bet the turn, and still I didn't attack it. Just not good enough.

But overall the game was very passive, and I promise I will hunt for more action packed games today. And take with me the advices in regards to sizing.

Now I'm gonna head to the gym and get a good start to the day.


Cash Games:

Hours played: 8h 00 min
Won/loss: +$417 USD
Hourly rate: $52.1 USD

Tournaments:

Profit/loss: +$146 USD (1 played)

Last edited by BigWhale; 05-11-2024 at 11:19 AM.
Whale (and brother) does Vegas - 2024 edition (8th-17th May) Quote

      
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