Yep top 20 get $400, next 20 get $200. Its a $5 fee for extra chips which is pretty much mandatory and goes to the dealers or staffs so not exactly a complete freeroll.

The Harrah's freeroll is a $10k freeroll and its had as little as only 37 entrants and up to 70 from what I've seen.

Top 10 get 500, next 10 get 300, next 10 get 200.

I am also attempting to get back on to the promo grind myself. I lasted an entire 55 minutes tonight at Flamingo. Hoping things will get better later in the week with the weed convention in town.

I've done this before, last time forcing myself to hit the hours at both Flamingo and Harrah's. I was miserable. This time if I can't get in a good game, I'm leaving. Of course if I'm close to the required hours ie 3 hours or less to hit the freeroll, I'll sit. Otherwise, I'm not going to force it anymore. My sanity is worth more than a freeroll I may or may not cash.

Really like reading your perspective on all of this. Keep it up.

That's like $52/hr.. not bad for 1/2

Subbed
I got more out of that one paragraph then I have from many hours of learning through books, podcasts etc. Sometimes just the way something is written makes a concept easier to grasp and this bit ^ highlights the importance of blockers succinctly. Thanks man.
Maybe you already do a bit of coaching or write about the game elsewhere but if not you'd be good value.

You're my hero

Tighties and Gentlenits,

After two weeks spent abroad, this middle-aged tagfish is happy to be heading back on the promo grind today. See you at the tables! Hide yo chips. Hide...yo...eh, never mind. We're only going to be in like 1 of 20 hands together.

So I missed the Harrahs freeroll, and I'm not about to do 15 straight hours today at the Flamingo. What's the current state of play for the Ballly's? Is it this Saturday or next?

This saturday will play the 3/6 limit freeroll, next saturday is the nl one

In town for the marathon last week I tried one of the freeroll places for two hours out of curiosity. The game was 3/6 limit at Bally's. This was one of the worst games to be found, so the freeroll benefits must be high to tolerate the game and structure. Chopping the blinds was common, as was one limper and the big blind seeing the flop. The problem with this scenario was that a post flop bet would usually take the flop for a $4 win, but the house drops $2 making it a 50% rake. Ouch.

I don't expect this game to be around very long.

3/6 limit is an occasional game that runs there. You must have been at a very odd time of day for 1/2nl not to be running.

Thanks Zefa. I'm sure you heard about the incident a few months back, where a table of $2/$4 limit Flamingo regs picked up en masse and transferred over to the Bally's $3/$6 limit with an explicit agreement to try to chop the blinds as much as possible over two 5 hour sessions? Imagine how tedious that must have been.

The Bally's dealers were righteously pissed, as they were only getting $1 or $2 in tips per half hour down.

Cheap way to earn tier credits though.

Plus they all cash in the 3/6 freeroll for $250 each. I don't know what the state of it is now, but for a time they got less than 40 runners (or sometimes barely over 40 and they'd all chop).

The best promo on the Strip imo, is at PHo. 3 hours of play gets a $20 comp at Ringers, which is a hidden gem buried behind the sports book. There's also a sidewalk entrance in the front of PHo, but it doesn't stand out at all. 20 bucks would get you a 15 inch slice, 5 chicken wings, and a soda. That slice is not out of a 15 inch pizza, the slice is 15 freakin inches. The pizza is the size of a trash can lid.

South Point also has lots of promos. They even had a full 2/5 game running today!

Be sure to mention what the PH promo drop is.

Honestly I don’t know what it is, but it’s important information when determining the true value.

I think all the CET rooms are 2 bucks with the promo fever going on. None at Caesars, obv.

It was one in the summer probably still is

All these promo rooms are dropping a rake of $5 and $2 promo at 1/2

Not enough talk about the costs of playing these promo games.

Prob $5-7 an hour in additional drop, depending on how aggro you are, because of the promo drop, which triggers at low levels ($4 out of a $20 pot, for ex, half of which might be your own money in these tight games).

Then account for the crappy line-ups. My own rule of thumb is that every other grinder in the game costs me $4/hour. I'm talking grinder, not nit.

Nits are harmless in the play, (you really have no biz losing to them) but they occupy seats, kill action, shrink pots, making that $4 on $20 drop thing a problem. I figure they cost about $2/hr.

If the lineup is 1 grinder, 2 nits and a $2 promo drop, freeroll value might be zilch.

Meaning (I'm being long winded) do promos if you want, but account for the costs, not just the bennies.

My theory is that it doesn't matter where you play low limit in Vegas, the locals are aware enough to smooth out the market. Anyplace with a good EV promo will attract enough grinders/nits to bring that EV back in line with the rest of the town.

So just play where you feel most comfy.

Very clear-eyed assessment. Nicely done. I would add that you want to stay topped up with your stack in these higher rake spots. Keep it at $300 ($500 at Harrahs) and don't be afraid to top up for as little as $60-$100. Play longer sessions and try to build up a 'ten-pin' (my nickname for a $1000 stack) or bigger, and hope that someone else at the table also has one going.

Winning a few more big $500+ pots helps mitigate the high rake when it's topped out at $7. One of the biggest mistakes the nits make here is buying in for a 50bb stack and letting it dwindle.

To importantly amend my last post, when I said, "Play where you're most comfortable," let me add this truth: if you're not going to play the freeroll, don't play in a freeroll joint. Don't sit down at Bally's or Harrah's or wherever for one night while here as a tourist. Sorry, but true: All the costs, none of the bennies, is killer.

And in fact, to the extent these promos are +EV, that EV comes from tourists funding the promos without being eligible to win them.

They all have various high hand promos as well. Additional freeroll drop costs you about $2 an hour because not every hand you win is big enough to drop $2. The PHo promo then costs about $6 for 3 hours and you get $20 in food.

This time of year if you only play low limits at non-promo rooms, you don't get many to choose from.

I hate to ruin things but the best low stakes game in Vegas is at Golden Nugget. 1/2 uncapped

^^ This.

And there are modest high hand (Quads or better) bonuses (not that we are going to get a lot of them).

Promo drop for that is $1.

Rake maxes out at $4.

Great action most of the time.

Orleans 1/3 at a rake of $3 max and $2 promo is great but I hate how they play 10 handed. There is just no room between you and the seat next to you. The wheels on your seat don’t even fit in the space.

It's true that it's basically funneling money from tourists to locals via the promo drop at places like Harrah's.

So if you consider that tourists have a net total loss of all promo drop paid and the rooms must track and return all promo fund money to players one way or another then logically locals are net winning from the promo drop.

However nits are doing a lot better than a LAG like myself.


I still prefer playing lag to get more action vs the whales but I'm definitely aware of how much I'm pumping the drop. I still think I'm way ahead of the extra drop though min qualifying for the hours.

Also I just try to avoid the daytime hours as much as possible and the action is fine at these rooms.