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Old 12-31-2017, 01:49 AM   #51
John Mehaffey
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by drbeechwood View Post
Cromwell has 3/2 on double deck $10 tables but no re-splitting.
You can only split one time? I think it's 3. You can't double down after spitting though, which makes it much worse than the $25 MGM games, the $10 double deck at TI, and most off-Strip joints.
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Old 12-31-2017, 04:10 PM   #52
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

Can you still make a 5-number bet at these tables? The troll in me wouldn't be able to resist that.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:39 PM   #53
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Can you still make a 5-number bet at these tables? The troll in me wouldn't be able to resist that.
I believe you can still make the 0, 00, 1, 2 and 3 bet because the 000 is the Sands logo and I believe it's above the other two zeros on the felt.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:55 PM   #54
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Triple Zero Roullete

I think we need a pic of this new spread

Edit: found an article w a few pictures. Woof

https://vitalvegas.com/venetian-trip...-roulette/amp/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 12-31-2017, 06:15 PM   #55
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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1...

The reality is that it comes down to a number - revenue per square foot. And if they can't raise the revenues of table games to roughly match an increasing number of competitors (including non-gaming), it's just not sustainable. Think about it this way: 10 people putting down $5 each per spin at 5% house edge. That's $2.50/spin or $50/hour for the casino. Pay each of the workers $20/hr and $10/hr split between pit boss and surveillance, and it's a toss up between having a roulette table or literally empty floor space. If you want to compete with other games or slots or even retail or a snack bar, you have to be close enough in revenue to not get laughed out of the room.

Fair summary of Rev/sq. foot, but that is not the sole criteria* , a better analysis is optimizing the overall product mix.

(*Interestingly, at least to me, Nevada gaming law has historically limited unlimited licenses to folks who built a required hotel to go with the casino, provided certain amenities, etc.)
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Old 12-31-2017, 07:56 PM   #56
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
You can only split one time? I think it's 3. You can't double down after spitting though, which makes it much worse than the $25 MGM games, the $10 double deck at TI, and most off-Strip joints.
Yes, that's what I meant. Wasn't sure about the odds effect, or shall I say how bad this is.
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:12 PM   #57
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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1. While people counting and failing doesn't hurt the casinos as much as people counting and succeeding, it's no better than people flat betting EV-wise and carries more variance.

2. The casinos don't care about blackjack players flaming out - think about what local pros think about poker fish flaming out and then realize the corporations that own casinos care less than that.

3. Blackjack tables were breakeven propositions to begin with, casinos primarily had them for ambiance. It's a beatable game precisely because the house edge is small to begin with - you need exceptional dexterity to control dice and a huge bias to profit off roulette, but a single card removed from a deck can tilt the game of blackjack in your favor. Roulette and Big Wheel carry a big house edge but they are slow as molasses.

People like to tell themselves these things because they profit from the loopholes - "casinos shouldn't crack down on counters" (so I can count), "they should keep house edges small for their own longevity" (and mine), "poker tables draw more table games players" (more fish for me).

The reality is that it comes down to a number - revenue per square foot. And if they can't raise the revenues of table games to roughly match an increasing number of competitors (including non-gaming), it's just not sustainable. Think about it this way: 10 people putting down $5 each per spin at 5% house edge. That's $2.50/spin or $50/hour for the casino. Pay each of the workers $20/hr and $10/hr split between pit boss and surveillance, and it's a toss up between having a roulette table or literally empty floor space. If you want to compete with other games or slots or even retail or a snack bar, you have to be close enough in revenue to not get laughed out of the room.
I don't want to sound like a troll but I work in the casino business and pretty much all of this is wrong
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Old 01-03-2018, 02:15 AM   #58
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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I don't want to sound like a troll but I work in the casino business and pretty much all of this is wrong
How is it wrong? Not trying to be a dick, just curious.
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Old 01-03-2018, 08:08 PM   #59
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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How is it wrong? Not trying to be a dick, just curious.
There's so much to unpack I don't even know where to start

The idea that blackjack is a breakeven prop for casinos, or that people play anywhere near optimal strategy. The average person probably plays blackjack at a 2.5-3% house edge. Combine that with it being easily the fastest and most popular table game and it become the core of the business only behind slots.

Most people do not only bet 5 dollars, even on a 5 dollar roulette table.

Dealers dont get paid that much out of the casino pocket

It's just all wrong honestly.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:05 PM   #60
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

Blackjack is by far the most profitable table game in Nevada. It's not a break even game by any means.
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Old 01-03-2018, 11:16 PM   #61
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

i can just feel the worthless argument about to break out and im already sick of it
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:19 AM   #62
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

Casinos are trying to make money. If they want to make a triple zero wheel, let them.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:09 PM   #63
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Fun fact that I heard through the casino grapevine. The game was named "Sands Roulette" when submitted to the GCB. You should see that on the sign. Therefore, you probably won't see it at another property because they would need to call it "Sands Roulette".
This doesn't add up. It is greatly in Sands favor for every casino to be offering it. It's just like 6:5 BJ- it works for the industry only if it's ubiquitous.
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Old 01-04-2018, 06:40 PM   #64
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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This doesn't add up. It is greatly in Sands favor for every casino to be offering it. It's just like 6:5 BJ- it works for the industry only if it's ubiquitous.
I'm just sharing the rumor I heard. I don't even know if it's true (I'm leaning towards 'yes' as the symbol isn't a 000, but a Sands logo).

If no one else can use it, Sands would show a greater hold across all roulette games on their property, potentially beating other gaming companies by a measurable percentage, which is valuable when speaking to shareholders. Perhaps that was the thinking behind it, if true of course.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:03 PM   #65
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by JHair View Post
There's so much to unpack I don't even know where to start

The idea that blackjack is a breakeven prop for casinos, or that people play anywhere near optimal strategy. The average person probably plays blackjack at a 2.5-3% house edge. Combine that with it being easily the fastest and most popular table game and it become the core of the business only behind slots.

Most people do not only bet 5 dollars, even on a 5 dollar roulette table.

Dealers dont get paid that much out of the casino pocket

It's just all wrong honestly.
You're welcome to post your own numbers or read my other posts, but in the end you should take whatever you think and match it up with what your employer is writing to its shareholders and filing in documents with the SEC.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:27 PM   #66
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by Pokeraddict View Post
Blackjack is by far the most profitable table game in Nevada. It's not a break even game by any means.
By what measure? House edge? $ made by casino? $ made per hand played? $ made per table?
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Old 01-05-2018, 02:11 AM   #67
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by JHair View Post
There's so much to unpack I don't even know where to start

The idea that blackjack is a breakeven prop for casinos, or that people play anywhere near optimal strategy. The average person probably plays blackjack at a 2.5-3% house edge. Combine that with it being easily the fastest and most popular table game and it become the core of the business only behind slots.

Most people do not only bet 5 dollars, even on a 5 dollar roulette table.

Dealers dont get paid that much out of the casino pocket

It's just all wrong honestly.
Thanks for the response.
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Old 01-05-2018, 03:43 AM   #68
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

Could a casino actually patent adding another slot to a roulette wheel?
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:27 AM   #69
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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By what measure? House edge? $ made by casino? $ made per hand played? $ made per table?
Usually, the relevant number is $ per sqft
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Could a casino actually patent adding another slot to a roulette wheel?
No. Contrary to common belief you don’t have to invent something “new” to be granted a patent, but you need at least something that’s considered an “innovative step” to an existing product. Another slot on a roulette wheel doesn’t even come close to meeting that requirement.

That said, there are other ways to protect (intellectual) property like a design patent. Good example is the “contour” Coca Cola bottle for which they got a design patent over 100 years ago. They were the only ones allowed to sell their product in a bottle of that shape but obv. not the only ones who were allowed to sell in glass bottles.
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Old 01-05-2018, 06:52 AM   #70
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
You're welcome to post your own numbers or read my other posts, but in the end you should take whatever you think and match it up with what your employer is writing to its shareholders and filing in documents with the SEC.
Fine, 10 people betting about 250 bucks combined, a dealer only making 5/hr from the casino, a supervisor making 22/hr while supervising 6 tables, and 6 total surveillance people for the entire property, and you have a much more profitable scenario than anything you described.

Mine is realistic, though.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:24 AM   #71
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

On the LV strip baccarat brings in 30% more revenue then blackjack which has 150% more tables:

http://gaming.unlv.edu/reports/strip_game_mix.pdf
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:08 PM   #72
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

That is what I was trying to get at with my response.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:37 PM   #73
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by JHair View Post
Fine, 10 people betting about 250 bucks combined, a dealer only making 5/hr from the casino, a supervisor making 22/hr while supervising 6 tables, and 6 total surveillance people for the entire property, and you have a much more profitable scenario than anything you described.
Sounds like the casinos are making a huge mistake by focusing so much on retail and amenities. You should probably short their stock, take the profits, and open your own casino with player-friendly rules, the things that everyone says will bring in all the gamblers: single zero roulette, 3:2 blackjack, 85% pen, and a generous comp system.

I would definitely play at your casino.
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:06 PM   #74
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by BoDiddleyMacau View Post
I'm just sharing the rumor I heard. I don't even know if it's true (I'm leaning towards 'yes' as the symbol isn't a 000, but a Sands logo).
I think it’s a Sands logo because that’s less obviously ‘screw you’ than a lot of Zeros and the name Triple Zero Roulette. Zero isn’t a number that inspires good thoughts among potential gamblers.

That wouldn’t prevent other casinos from adding their own logo or other symbols. Maybe the layout could have 40 cute puppies and pay 30-1. I bet that would do well.
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Old 01-05-2018, 01:30 PM   #75
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Re: Triple Zero Roullete

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Originally Posted by JHair View Post
Fine, 10 people betting about 250 bucks combined, a dealer only making 5/hr from the casino, a supervisor making 22/hr while supervising 6 tables, and 6 total surveillance people for the entire property, and you have a much more profitable scenario than anything you described.

Mine is realistic, though.
I'm sorry to hear that you lost your job at Lucky Dragon yesterday.
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