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Old 12-01-2017, 09:39 AM   #51
mavsfan4ever
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Re: Taking That Shot

He’s not trying to build a roll to live off of and isn’t trying to maximize his EV in his 8 months of playing. He’s doing this more for the experience bc his long term plan is to graduate and get a job. Some people just can’t seem to grasp this.

He would much rather go to Vegas than Oklahoma, even if that means he wins less money over his 8 months. Think of it like a vacation. If you are taking 8 months off of school, you want to do something you will remember and have a story to tell. Grinding away in Oklahoma won’t be much of a story and on top of that he will always wonder what it would have been like to live n Vegas. He would be sitting st his job day dreaming about what it would have been like.

A lot of people take a big trip after graduating or after passing the bar exam that they can’t really afford just bc they know it’s the last time they may be able to. This is basically what the OP is doing, but he just has a chance to actually come out ahead $ wise if it goes well (no clue how much of a chance that is).

Good luck OP. Just hope you keep your head on straight and know when to walk away if/when things start going downhill.
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Old 12-01-2017, 06:45 PM   #52
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by kailua View Post
good luck op

It sounds as if you've given your plan a lot of thought and are well prepared in all facets to pursue your dream.

Taking your junior year 'semester abroad' in Las Vegas circumvents any potential resume gaps following graduation.

I followed my own dream on a "jaunt" through Japan at a similar life juncture. It in turn has shaped my life for the past thirty-two years in ways that I continue to be thankful for.

"Once in a while it really hits people that they don't have to experience the world in the way they have been told." -- Alan Keightley.
I'm relatively neutral towards OP's plan but think advice like this is really bad advice.

The nature of college has changed dramatically since you were there, and it's changed even since I was there.

Graduation is a low bar to clear. Graduating on time is a low bar to clear. Everyone takes high school AP classes. Having a diploma isn't a golden ticket to success, it's the entry ticket to a cage fight.

You'll see tons of 60-year-old CEOs who got their bachelors degrees in history or English, then climbed from mail room clerk to CEO with an MBA somewhere along the way. You don't see too many 40-year-olds on track to do that. Because as more and more people went to college, people can be pickier about the people coming out.

College matters now. **** this "learning how to learn" ****, the people who are getting scooped up right out of college and funneled into the success track are the people who aced AP classes, and then aced their college classes, did a few prestigious related internships at leading companies, and got the red carpet rolled out for them. Why settle for "young and learns quickly" when you can have young, learns quickly, has already learned a bunch of ****, got to experience life at a top company, and found time to be president of a charitable club?

Whenever someone tells me they could have graduated early, I immediately ask what they did with all their spare time.

That all being said, if you had to pick a time in your life where you can disappear for 6 months and not be noticed, junior year of college would probably be #1.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:36 PM   #53
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
I'm relatively neutral towards OP's plan but think advice like this is really bad advice.

The nature of college has changed dramatically since you were there, and it's changed even since I was there.

Graduation is a low bar to clear. Graduating on time is a low bar to clear. Everyone takes high school AP classes. Having a diploma isn't a golden ticket to success, it's the entry ticket to a cage fight.

You'll see tons of 60-year-old CEOs who got their bachelors degrees in history or English, then climbed from mail room clerk to CEO with an MBA somewhere along the way. You don't see too many 40-year-olds on track to do that. Because as more and more people went to college, people can be pickier about the people coming out.

College matters now. **** this "learning how to learn" ****, the people who are getting scooped up right out of college and funneled into the success track are the people who aced AP classes, and then aced their college classes, did a few prestigious related internships at leading companies, and got the red carpet rolled out for them. Why settle for "young and learns quickly" when you can have young, learns quickly, has already learned a bunch of ****, got to experience life at a top company, and found time to be president of a charitable club?

Whenever someone tells me they could have graduated early, I immediately ask what they did with all their spare time.

That all being said, if you had to pick a time in your life where you can disappear for 6 months and not be noticed, junior year of college would probably be #1.
I disagree in part; to the extent that someone takes time between educational sprints, those gaps won't really matter provided the desirable edu credentials you tout are obtained.

The disruptive currents in business these days DO allow more room for success from the non-traditional inclusion of experiential learning. A sabbatical spent "taking a shot" might teach OP valuable lessons, now.

Additionally, the explosion of online, free tools in the last 10 years has tended to heavily disrupt educational experiences as well. You can get entire Harvard courses or coding/programming lessons or poker lessons for free online ... depending upon which you might want to know about. (FWIW, my college curriculum WAS highly valuable at "learning how to learn", i.e, acquiring a skill set for adaptation to disruption .... so I don't get your points about "**** that" .... Learning how to learn is key to leveraging the resources available today.)

Last edited by Gzesh; 12-02-2017 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 01:48 PM   #54
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by danny_h View Post
Whatsup guys...

I'll try to keep this to the point. I turned 21 about two weeks ago and am a junior in college. I've been playing live poker since I was 16, sneaking into casinos with a beautiful South Carolina fake ID. Through the past few years, I've saved up a roll of a little bit over 30k, playing mostly 2-5. Poker has always been my part-time/summer job.

I plan to take the spring semester off of school and take a shot in the higher variance sense of the word, meaning I'll be playing mostly 5-10 and adjusting as necessary. I love this game more than anything and owe it to myself to finally dedicate some time. Also, I have AP credits from high school and plan to graduate college on time barring a lightning strike or a million dollar WSOP score... Some people study abroad, I'm taking a semester off to grind in Vegas and saving a semester of tuition while I'm at it.

So starting January 1st, I'll be in Las Vegas as long as my finances and skill level allows. For those of you who want to tell me how bad of an idea this is, go express your general misery at the world in other ways. I don't care.

So my plan is to play both 2-5 and 5-10 at the Aria and Bellagio depending on games and times, adjusting as necessary. Any tips as to which games to play and when? How's the Bellagio 5-10 game in January/February?

On another note, if anyone needs a roommate or wants to talk hands with me while I'm there let me know. I'm looking for like-minded individuals trying to rise up the poker ranks. I don't know anyone in town and would love to meet some people. I'm fairly outgoing, love sports and outdoor activities, and down to do pretty much whatever. PM me. I'll keep posting.

And if this all goes to ****...at least I tried. I'm too young to be cynical.
After a month long trip during the wsop this year and a week in LA I have found the Vegas games pretty poor, and the LA games different class in terms of value. I'm doing another trip in 2018 but will be staying in LA for 2-3 months and doing a few long weekends to Vegas for a few tournaments and parties.

I know this is Las Vegas forum, but I highly recommend you check out IS games, has to be some of the best value 5/5 games on the planet at commerce and the bike.
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Old 12-03-2017, 12:32 PM   #55
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by Gzesh View Post
I disagree in part; to the extent that someone takes time between educational sprints, those gaps won't really matter provided the desirable edu credentials you tout are obtained.

The disruptive currents in business these days DO allow more room for success from the non-traditional inclusion of experiential learning. A sabbatical spent "taking a shot" might teach OP valuable lessons, now.

Additionally, the explosion of online, free tools in the last 10 years has tended to heavily disrupt educational experiences as well. You can get entire Harvard courses or coding/programming lessons or poker lessons for free online ... depending upon which you might want to know about. (FWIW, my college curriculum WAS highly valuable at "learning how to learn", i.e, acquiring a skill set for adaptation to disruption .... so I don't get your points about "**** that" .... Learning how to learn is key to leveraging the resources available today.)
How do you differentiate "I took online courses from Harvard and learned a lot" from "I played some online courses in the background while I surfed porn"?

(To be clear, I think one CAN differentiate, just not in the 30 minutes you get.)

"Learning how to learn" is a terrible line to tout because it always follows a "but." Nobody says, "When I worked for Bigley Architecture, I drew all the electrical and ventilation blueprints for that cylindrical glass building on Fifth Street. Also, in addition, in college I really learned how to learn" or "I discovered nanomolar, protein-protein interface inhibitors of Mcl1 and they're now being tested in Phase 2 clinical trials for acute myeloid leukemia. Also, I paid attention in college level organic chemistry."

If you have learned how to learn, it already shows in other ways because you have actually learned something. And preferably (and increasingly often) it's not just learning something but something both relevant and useful.

If someone hasn't shown they've learned something, saying they've learned how to learn isn't going to help. And if they've learned something, it's redundant for them to say that they can learn.

A parallel example would be people who list "Microsoft Word" as skills on their resumes. At this point (like the past 20 years), it's assumed everyone knows how to use it. If you know how to use it, it shows up on your resume formatting. Anyone who lists it as a skill at this point is better off not listing skills than listing it.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:07 PM   #56
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
How do you differentiate "I took online courses from Harvard and learned a lot" from "I played some online courses in the background while I surfed porn"?

(To be clear, I think one CAN differentiate, just not in the 30 minutes you get.)

"Learning how to learn" is a terrible line to tout because it always follows a "but." Nobody says, "When I worked for Bigley Architecture, I drew all the electrical and ventilation blueprints for that cylindrical glass building on Fifth Street. Also, in addition, in college I really learned how to learn" or "I discovered nanomolar, protein-protein interface inhibitors of Mcl1 and they're now being tested in Phase 2 clinical trials for acute myeloid leukemia. Also, I paid attention in college level organic chemistry."

If you have learned how to learn, it already shows in other ways because you have actually learned something. And preferably (and increasingly often) it's not just learning something but something both relevant and useful.

If someone hasn't shown they've learned something, saying they've learned how to learn isn't going to help. And if they've learned something, it's redundant for them to say that they can learn.

A parallel example would be people who list "Microsoft Word" as skills on their resumes. At this point (like the past 20 years), it's assumed everyone knows how to use it. If you know how to use it, it shows up on your resume formatting. Anyone who lists it as a skill at this point is better off not listing skills than listing it.
I do not think we are in disagreement on the bolded part. "Learning to learn" in my view means acquiring a particular skill set, and a valuable one.

(Never said you put that down as a sufficient qualification, anymore than "learning to walk" qualifies you for an interview/job because you were able to show up.)

Where we differ is that I think you discount too heavily that some colleges teach that skill set of learning how to learn, This has two benefits, (a) you acquire a teachable skill set which has value to you, and (b) their branding possibly pushes your resume up the curve.

I also think your critique of the OP's plan is misplaced, he is talking about 6 months or so, not some irrevocable binary choice of pursuit of happiness through either "education" or "experiential learning"
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:32 PM   #57
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by fazzers View Post
After a month long trip during the wsop this year and a week in LA I have found the Vegas games pretty poor, and the LA games different class in terms of value. I'm doing another trip in 2018 but will be staying in LA for 2-3 months and doing a few long weekends to Vegas for a few tournaments and parties.

I know this is Las Vegas forum, but I highly recommend you check out IS games, has to be some of the best value 5/5 games on the planet at commerce and the bike.
LA games arent much better than Vegas games any more.

OP: if you want some craziness and some real action, goto Macau.
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Old 12-03-2017, 04:41 PM   #58
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Re: Taking That Shot

I'm highly skeptical that LA games are anywhere close to as bad as Vegas games today. Regardless, OP isn't looking for great action. He is looking to go to Vegas.
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Old 12-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #59
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Re: Taking That Shot

LA games >>>>> Vegas games by a country mile
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Old 12-03-2017, 07:34 PM   #60
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Re: Taking That Shot

Goodluck op, im subbed for the ride!
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Old 12-03-2017, 10:31 PM   #61
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Re: Taking That Shot

Quote:
good luck op

It sounds as if you've given your plan a lot of thought and are well prepared in all facets to pursue your dream.

Taking your junior year 'semester abroad' in Las Vegas circumvents any potential resume gaps following graduation.

I followed my own dream on a "jaunt" through Japan at a similar life juncture. It in turn has shaped my life for the past thirty-two years in ways that I continue to be thankful for.

"Once in a while it really hits people that they don't have to experience the world in the way they have been told." -- Alan Keightley.
Quote:
Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
I'm relatively neutral towards OP's plan but think advice like this is really bad advice.

The nature of college has changed dramatically since you were there, and it's changed even since I was there. Graduation is a low bar to clear. Graduating on time is a low bar to clear. Everyone takes high school AP classes. Having a diploma isn't a golden ticket to success, it's the entry ticket to a cage fight.

You'll see tons of 60-year-old CEOs who got their bachelors degrees in history or English, then climbed from mail room clerk to CEO with an MBA somewhere along the way. You don't see too many 40-year-olds on track to do that. Because as more and more people went to college, people can be pickier about the people coming out.

College matters now. **** this "learning how to learn" ****, the people who are getting scooped up right out of college and funneled into the success track are the people who aced AP classes, and then aced their college classes, did a few prestigious related internships at leading companies, and got the red carpet rolled out for them. Why settle for "young and learns quickly" when you can have young, learns quickly, has already learned a bunch of ****, got to experience life at a top company, and found time to be president of a charitable club?

Whenever someone tells me they could have graduated early, I immediately ask what they did with all their spare time.

That all being said, if you had to pick a time in your life where you can disappear for 6 months and not be noticed, junior year of college would probably be #1.
.
callipygian, you express some very valid points as usual. However, I believe you've perhaps made some incorrect inferences pertaining to op's original inquiry and my reply.

My post offered no advice to op. I commented positively on his thought process, made reference to his timing, and shared a personal anecdote with attached quote.

op explicitly stated that his decision was final and that he held no interest in debating its merit. He simply requested info on games/timing and the Bellagio 5-10 game in January/February.

Not knowing op's background, sans roll economic status, ambitions, current major, graduate school intentions, network connections, and perhaps most importantly his life/economic/work priorities, etc..., any attempt to refute his current choice would appear to simply reflect the poster's personal priorities and have little to do with op's 'shot' post. As I said, your points are valid (for you and your experience) though in this thread may lack direct relevancy.

btw...my final child is slated to be graduated from university this term, so although college may have changed dramatically, I still retain a semblance of its current nuances (unfortunately, more so on the tuition side. lol).
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:46 AM   #62
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by danny_h View Post

So starting January 1st, I'll be in Las Vegas as long as my finances and skill level allows. For those of you who want to tell me how bad of an idea this is, go express your general misery at the world in other ways. I don't care.


I was fortunate and was able to stop reading right here and know how it ends. Basically you want advice as long as it agrees with your thought process, but if someone has experience otherwise then they can stick it because they are old and crusty.

Honestly, good luck. Realize there is value in wisdom/experience, though.
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Old 12-04-2017, 10:08 AM   #63
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by Pensfan View Post
I was fortunate and was able to stop reading right here and know how it ends. Basically you want advice as long as it agrees with your thought process, but if someone has experience otherwise then they can stick it because they are old and crusty.

Honestly, good luck. Realize there is value in wisdom/experience, though.
No. All he is saying is that the decision has been made, and our input regarding the decision itself is pointless. I would say he welcomes input regarding what happens in Vegas, and is inviting us along for the journey.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:31 PM   #64
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by kailua View Post
My post offered no advice to op.
Aren't you trying to normalize the idea of taking an undocumented break from college?

If you're not, then I apologize for not clarifying first.

But if you are, I'm trying to point out that while many people did it in the past and gotten a lot of benefit out of it, the costs of doing so have increased over time.

OP definitely has the requisite money, and his plan is not bad. But here's an alternative that I think is better: graduate early, or, at least, rack up the credits to graduate one semester early. Fall of senior year, line up a job for the following spring. Or line up an acceptance to graduate school. Go play poker in what would have been your last semester. Come back and walk with your friends, and then either go to a job or be a poker pro.
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Old 12-05-2017, 02:41 PM   #65
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Re: Taking That Shot

it is said that only 30% of students who take breaks returned and graduated.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:19 PM   #66
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Re: Taking That Shot

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So take this post for what it is. I'm not trying to build a life for myself as a 1-3/2-5 grinder. That's not what this is about. It's a shot, a risk, a gamble. If I go broke, well at least a tried.
Tried what exactly though? Tried to beat 5/T+ for a few months? What if you are successful? IE,what if you make $100k+ in less than 6 months? Or even better, what if you hit a big tournament score during this time and make $300k+. Will you then forgo going backing to school to continue to grind poker. IMO, that would be the biggest tragedy of all.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:37 PM   #67
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Tried what exactly though? Tried to beat 5/T+ for a few months? What if you are successful? IE,what if you make $100k+ in less than 6 months? Or even better, what if you hit a big tournament score during this time and make $300k+. Will you then forgo going backing to school to continue to grind poker. IMO, that would be the biggest tragedy of all.
He wants to know if he can play at a level higher than a 2/5 grinder and believes he can determine that in a sample size of a few months. Maybe if he walks away believing that he can, it means he will feel more comfortable taking risks because he thinks he can always fall back on poker to earn a nice living.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:36 PM   #68
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Re: Taking That Shot

Every time I read one of these posts I think to myself....why Vegas? I live in Vegas, I am not a pro. I work a real job with real benefits and retirement. I am a reg, sometimes nitty, sometimes LAG, sometimes TAG, and sometimes I play 3/6 and 4/8 just to kill off time. I play A LOT of poker in my spare time. The games here are not nearly as good as California imo. The games here are not near what they were from 98ish up to 10 years ago. I travel to so-cal quite frequently for work and the Commerce, San Manuel, and Bike are MUCH better games.

One thing you can expect in Vegas, especially at the 2/5 and 5/10 is the same grinders sitting at the table every time you sit down. On good nights there will only be 6-7 reg grinders at the table with you. Really makes the games suck for lack of a better term.

When people start these threads they already have their mind made up so I don't know why they ask for opinions when they will not take it into consideration. I wish you the best and hope things work out for you. Will be following along.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:59 PM   #69
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Re: Taking That Shot

Is the difference between games in Vegas and LA enough to cover the difference in cost of living? How much harder is it to rent an inexpensive non-crappy place in a relatively safe neighborhood for less than six months in California vs Vegas?

If Vegas games are tougher, maybe a wannabe pro should show to themselves that they have the discipline to make it in Vegas, then consider going elsewhere.

Does Vegas have significantly more opportunities to build your bankroll with a tournament score?
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:45 PM   #70
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by drbeechwood View Post
"I just said, 'Good luck'." -Bob Dylan

Assume you have a results tracker...Keep us posted. Should be an interesting adventure.
"He said his name was Columbus..."
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Old 12-08-2017, 05:20 PM   #71
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Is the difference between games in Vegas and LA enough to cover the difference in cost of living? How much harder is it to rent an inexpensive non-crappy place in a relatively safe neighborhood for less than six months in California vs Vegas?

If Vegas games are tougher, maybe a wannabe pro should show to themselves that they have the discipline to make it in Vegas, then consider going elsewhere.

Does Vegas have significantly more opportunities to build your bankroll with a tournament score?
Particularly since he's not doing this for the money or to make a living, it makes Vegas that much easier of a choice. The cost-of-living in LA to live decently is a lot higher than Vegas, and the rake is higher too. And there's not any real added value to being in LA over Vegas for a short span. LA's mostly just ugly and crowded and the cardrooms are depressing places to spend a lot of time at. I know because I live here.
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Old 12-08-2017, 09:24 PM   #72
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Re: Taking That Shot

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Originally Posted by Art_Cool_Lay View Post
Every time I read one of these posts I think to myself....why Vegas? I live in Vegas, I am not a pro. ... The games here are not near what they were from 98ish up to 10 years ago. I travel to so-cal quite frequently for work and the Commerce, San Manuel, and Bike are MUCH better games.

One thing you can expect in Vegas, especially at the 2/5 and 5/10 is the same grinders sitting at the table every time you sit down. On good nights there will only be 6-7 reg grinders at the table with you. Really makes the games suck for lack of a better term....

. I wish you the best and hope things work out for you. Will be following along.
I also live here, in Henderson, but play only for entertainment (because I am not very good and play only lowest stakes.)

I agree that the games here are not what they were once; however, I don't care if the 6 guys at the table play poker like skilled regs, so long as those regs are not social nits ....

I'd rather play at a lively table than a silent table.

Just sayin' learn to interact and keep it entertaining, regardless of your motive or skill level. You are not online .... act 'live".
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Old 12-11-2017, 04:26 PM   #73
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Re: Taking That Shot

Hey,

I was playing poker in my mid twenties. Had some good runs playing cash games, gradually moving up in stakes and finally was able to play 5/10 (all live). Wish some success in the game, I've done okay during those days before black friday on Poker Stars where I cashed 1st in a $11 re-buy tournament with only 30 dollars. I came out 1st in a field i don't even remember but that was my biggest win.

Felt good about it then life happened. Got married with kids and priorities changed. Instead of grinding at the poker tables and living the dream of living in Vegas and grinding. Fast forward 10+ years to present day I have gone to vegas for the first time ever. Being out of the game for much of a decade and now in my thirties I visited Vegas and opted to play something I know how to play. BlackJack. But I was in Vegas for the first time so there I stood in front of the Aria poker room wanting to play a 1/3 game. No Seats at the time so I ended up sitting at a 2/5 game.

The expectations were far different from what I would have imagined. It was like riding a bike all over again. Granted some of my decision making was a little off. I was rusty and thats putting it nicely. I beat that game that day and it was easier than I had originally thought. At the same time it was extremely boring, the action was stale seemed like everyone was very calculating except for that 1 player who was just dumping chips every chance he got. It was my only experience in vegas playing poker and at a low level than most here. It felt like everyone at the table was working, I was there for the experience. People were protective of their rolls and trying find the right moment, I can hear their math being calculated in their heads.

Go to Vegas, do your thing, at higher stakes i'm not sure but it seemed like they knew each other at the tables. It's not what I expected, not sure about 5/10 or anything higher but i'm sure you'll be alright. I get the sense the poker gods were with me that night allowing me to have some hands. I figured they knew it was probably going to be my only poker experience since a decade ago. You'll lose some and you'll win, hope you beat it and live your dream. Chase it now, before life grabs a hold of you, I still wonder if I could of made it.
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Old 01-03-2018, 05:12 PM   #74
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Re: Taking That Shot

I am late to this party. My only advice I would give the OP is that if you are in school for a STEM type degree you might find it hard to come back after that time off.

Shannon Shorr was an engineering student before he took is break. He came back to school and couldn't hack it in engineering and got a business degree. No shame there. That is my degree. It is just a level of learning that can be hard to get back.

That being said definitely take a shot before you get too old. Have fun.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:05 PM   #75
danny_h
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 15
Re: Taking That Shot

So 2017 has come and gone and here I am sitting a thousand miles away from the strip in my hometown just outside of Chicago. No Bellagio poker chips in sight, no casino lights, no shuffling machines - only 0-degree weather and a foot of snow.

Turns out I have to go back to school for a few weeks and finish up a class for half a unit so I can still graduate on time. That means the new Vegas move-in date is January 20th.

Until then, watching Run It Once videos and plugging Daniel Cates's Poker After Dark hands into Piosolver will have to suffice. He's pretty gto, I'll give him that.

Hope you 2+2ers had a good holiday. More to come.
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