I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand about something that’s for “currency” only applying to currency?

You are correct that a CTR is not filed as long as cash is not involved. This doesn’t stop a SAR from being filed though.

There is another layer to reporting when it comes to sports betting though. Any bet that exceeds 10k, regardless of how it’s placed (cash, chips, bet back a winning ticket) is reported to the Gaming Control Board on a Book Wagering Report (BWR).



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See, also,

https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default...-CPamphlet.pdf

Structuring and casino chip transactions

Do most people who bet big amounts in vegas bet cash or chips then? Seems like chips is more convenient? Imagine someone who places like say 6-10 wagers a day and bet 2k per game or more.


Also it seems like with the apps in vegas, wouldn't most people then when they cashout chips or cash just have the cashier deposit into their online account then... that way they dont have to carry a lot of money or chips around? Example you made a few wagers in cash and have the ticket, then go to cash out the tickets. Then you ask them to deposit the cash or tickets into the online account?


Of course that way you can bet on the app on your phone or ipad etc. But if these guys get banned or limited on the app which i heard happen a lot to sharp guys, could they always go to the sportsbook and withdraw the cash from their online account so they then bet at the counter? I wonder do sportsbooks get bothered with this if you do it almost everyday for the convenience of not having to carry a lot of cash/chips around?


For example, people mentioned if you have chips/cash in a poker room box, that is convenient because you can go in and out as you please so if you want to take some cash to sportsbook its simple. Then you cashout and take cash and back to your poker room box.


From looking at sportsbetting documentaries like action on showtime, it shows the guy going to book and carrying lot of cash all the time etc. I mean do they lock boxes for sportsbettors similar to poker players?

LOL @ examples in link

It won’t matter if you fly under the radar.


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Yes, committing a felony is all good as long as you stay under the radar!

CYT. While illegal, there is no one to enforce it.


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Just stop already. You won’t know if they file a SAR. That’s the whole point. And people get convicted of structuring all the time.

Just relax, guy. I worked in the casino industry. While many did get CTR’d, no one ever got in trouble for structuring.




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So because nobody you know has gotten busted for it, your advice to others is to just go ahead and do it. Consider the possibility that places where you haven’t worked might take their responsibilities more seriously.

You’ll have your opinion and I’ll have mine. My advice- stay under the radar, wash your money, float around the casino, and you won’t have a problem. Ez game.


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This is possibly the most ill-informed comment I’ve ever read and the bar is very high. Casinos file tens of thousands SARs a year and the last reports were that 28% of them were for structuring. 14% are for “minimal wagering” when you exchange a high volume of cash for chips and then mostly don’t gamble.

Casinos used to slack on this more before the Sands was hit with a $75 million fine in 2013 for not meeting their reporting requirements and now every casino takes that very seriously. They’re going after the minor casinos more recently, fining Tinian Dynasty Hotel and Casino in the Mariana Islands more than $70 million

It's almost as if EndoBird is really dumb and doesn't know what he's talking about or something!

You’re listing off higher profile and larger casinos. Mine is a smaller one located in the heart of St. Louis. A lot of structuring, gaming, washing, etc. goes on there. As a floor, we kept track of people walking with cheques many a times, only with $500 cheques or higher, with the occasional CTR every so often as well.

Those casinos may have reported that, but I’m telling you, ours, is no where near the profile as them. The gaming board could have a hay-day with all the crap that did go on.




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Snide comments followed by an insult. Way to have a conversation. Feel better about yourself?


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So much for Endo's flying under the radar....

Congratulations, your employer's profile just got bigger .... Kind of a short list of casinos in St Louis. I think that description of your casino is specific enough to attract interest from folks who are interested in such practices...... and, btw, its someone scarier than "the gaming board". https://www.fincen.gov/

I do expect this is just Endo trolling, not whistleblowing.... I may be wrong however: Care to elaborate on the "lot of structuring, gaming, washing, etc." i.e. "all the crap" that goes on there.

High stakes guys all have boxes I'm assuming so this isn't an issue. Also the casinos have all their info, they aren't some rando betting 10k.

*former employer* I got out of the industry several years ago. Wasn’t for me.

I’m not trolling- at least not on purpose.

We would have several conspicuous patrons that would come in, buy in for several thousand, play a couple hands, cash out, etc.

Others would go to a slot machine, a couple pulls here or there, cash out.

Guys would buy and sell chips to one another, walk with our highest denom. cheques if and when they’d win avoiding the CTR c/o.

They’d buy in at a table game and come to dice, so we wouldn’t know where they got the cheques from.

Not to mention our rating system was absolutely atrocious and from the early 90’s.

Like I had mentioned earlier, it’s fairly easy to fly under the radar if you know how to do so.

From the casino’s stand point, their money is as good as anyone else’s. I even had several shift bosses tell me that.








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I stand corrected, you did indicate it was your former employer.

I am also sure that your former employer has since educated its staff and updated its procedures in the interim....

What you describe is likely in the past. That someone pulling shenanigans on the floor with chips, buy-ins, et cetera, may fly under the blind radar of an operator does not get the blind operator off the hook.

Sorry, your shift bosses were wrong about "those guys" ....."their money" is NOT something a casino should consider the same as everyone else's money. Those bad actors likely NOT there to really gamble, he is there to abuse the casino's procedures with as little risk/cost/action as possible.

Money laundering on the casino floor is clearly something an operator can get tagged for simply by having weak controls (or weak shift bosses); the impetus can come from some investigator looking at the "bad guy" entirely outside the context of the casino entirely and just following the money into the casino.

Similarly, casino boxes are not sacrosanct, there was a big scandal when the Bellagio's poker room boxes were going to be opened and an employee tipped off boxholders ...

Times have changed, whether each change has been for better or worse depends on one's perspective and the friction imposed on the industry. (I've practiced gaming law for >25 years.)

Yes, I feel great!

In all honesty, people giving bad advice, that's ostensibly harmless despite potentially having life changing consequences, just rubs me the wrong way. Just SFTU please.

They may have updated their staff. It’s not right and I remember telling our staff of guys structuring and it was laughed off. “What can we do?” Was said many a times. From their end, do you sweat the money to push patrons to other casinos? Or do you bite your tongue and let them lose thousands? I’m sure ours wasn’t the only casino to do so. You know how we kept track of those structuring? On an excel sheet every pit had access to. It’d show the date that a patron walked with 2K in cheques, usually outdated by several months.

Anything above our $500 always had to be called on so when random patrons showed up with cheques we had no idea about, it was always a concern as to how did they get it? This excel spread sheet was the only way or if a floor left a note in the patrons file.

I agree they should be held responsible for it. My advice above were ways that I had seen done with little to none “heat.”

Larger casinos and those with better controls as you described certainly won’t fly.

Well said.


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Hello.... I'm new to this Forum,


Nobody answered the OP's question and I'm in the same situation. I was under the impression tax forms are required at the Vegs sportsbook for WINNINGS over $10,000.

If I bet $3,000.00 on a 3 to 1 boxing underdog and won - I get back $12,000.00 at the sports book counter. But I only "won" $9,000.00 not $13,000.00 therefore I would not be signing any tax forms. Correct?

A CTR is not the same as a tax form. Correct? But the CTR form is provided to the IRS?

So if I have Dyslexia and accidentally gave the incorrect SS# with my drivers license is the casino gonna arrest me? Do the casinos run the SS#'s or compare them to players cards?

Correct, a CTR is not a tax form per se as it does not indicate profit or loss, simply the fact that the transaction was >10k. However for larger payouts of known won money they may need to fill out a W2-g which does specify profits. Not sure about sports bets specifically. The casino will not arrest you.

You are correct that a CTR is not a tax form. It is filed with the IRS though for money laundering tracking. The CTR is filed on cash-in or cash-out >$10k. It doesn't matter if it is all winnings or not.

A W2g is a tax form and you need to complete one if your winnings on a sports bet meet both of the following critera:

Winnings are >$600
and
Payout is 300-1 or more.

As far as being dyslexic in regards to your SS# is concerned, the casino subscribes to services that can find/verify your SS. All SS#s for CTRs are verified. If you provide a false number there is a good chance a Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) will be filed. This is also a report that is sent to the IRS, however it is a lot more serious than a CTR.