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Old 04-25-2015, 05:25 AM   #76
OMC
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by braves2017 View Post
I think you have an irrational belief that anyone can do it, if they just follow some system or plan. Finally, I'm not sure how you can say I was blaming the game for problems or shortcomings because I never actually indicated any of my problems or shortcomings.
It's irrational of you to think I have "the irrational belief that anyone can beat poker if they just follow some system." Just the opposite. I think most people can't beat poker no matter what they do. It's a little bizarre that you said that. Your statement is based on air.

And as to bolded part: your entire post was an indication of your problems and shortcomings.

But I don't want to seem to harsh on you. I have sympathy for people struggling emotionally, genuinely. I just don't think indulging such people when they mis-identify the source of their emotional struggle is actually helping them.

Good luck going forward.

Last edited by OMC; 04-25-2015 at 05:31 AM.
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Old 04-25-2015, 12:30 PM   #77
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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It's irrational of you to think I have "the irrational belief that anyone can beat poker if they just follow some system." Just the opposite. I think most people can't beat poker no matter what they do. It's a little bizarre that you said that. Your statement is based on air.

And as to bolded part: your entire post was an indication of your problems and shortcomings.

But I don't want to seem to harsh on you. I have sympathy for people struggling emotionally, genuinely. I just don't think indulging such people when they mis-identify the source of their emotional struggle is actually helping them.

Good luck going forward.
he said he had a problem with risk tolerance which would lower winrate quite a bit and also lower variance so that would fit with his results.
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Old 04-25-2015, 01:22 PM   #78
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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I say the same to solid poker pros and law professionals (many of whom find an eventual distaste for their profession); if you have the skill set for success in this than you could very likely succeed in many pursuits, some far more financially lucrative. I just love the game/playing...if poker didn't exist I'd probably be a failed chess master who couldn't compete with the wizards. A ton of people without much knowledge and little to no passion for the game see it as an out to some kind of freedom they lack that will solve all the other issues in their personalities and life...that kind of disillusioned view is almost destined for failure. Poker won't 'fix' anyone and can make many problems more pronounced. The same thing occurs in medical fields where students often drive themselves through a decade of school/internship/residency with no passion for it but fixated on this idea that when they 'make it' the success and money will solve all that...met many that regret the entire process.
Very true - if you put the work and passion into a profession that you enjoy, after some time, you'll be making an "hourly rate" that far surpasses that which all but perhaps a handful of pros make. As one of those "law professionals" (who gets denigrated regularly on these boards) who still loves what he does, make an "hourly rate" greater than $500 and after expenses around $300 of that goes into my pocket without variance. So I can truly enjoy my poker habit. I read all the time that you need to forget that the chips represent money. And I can because of that. They're just marks of success. If I play well, I'm happy. If I get my money in good and the cards don't fall, I don't get all red-faced. Sometimes I win. Sometimes I lose. But the game remains great fun. How many "pros" can say the game is fun for them.
You guys who are all obsessed with win rates don't realize that sooner or later, no matter who you are, variance is going to get you, good win rate or not. It's just nature and statistics.

Dom's tips by the way are excellent. He's a great long-time poster who generally speaks good truth.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:56 PM   #79
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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I wonder if you understand most of the points I raised were observations? The reality is, I was successful by my understanding of it, I did not go broke, I made a living at it and I came out of it with out destroying myself. I think you have an irrational belief that anyone can do it, if they just follow some system or plan. Finally, I'm not sure how you can say I was blaming the game for problems or shortcomings because I never actually indicated any of my problems or shortcomings. My problem was risk tolerance but I do not blame the game for that. I think your opinion is with out merit.

1 you were NOT successful.
2 Teenage girls make what you made working at american apparel with no variance and they get discounts
3 you are in fact sour

it is no biggy - the life of gambool aint for everyone...but lets at least be a little bit real
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Old 04-25-2015, 05:11 PM   #80
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Squid has been on point this whole thread,Dom brought the knowledge too.

At this point the op is unable to see any possibility but his own conclusions so I think everyone should disengage from him and his whining waste of time.

But it was important to counter his crap
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Old 04-25-2015, 10:39 PM   #81
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I think that the OP is making some good points. As with any thread on this site, a lot of self-righteous, and largely un-tested, young guys are trolling him. I have a career that is not in poker but whenever I have played more than 4 days in a row in Vegas, no matter whether I have won a lot or lost some, I am like "get me the F@$% out of here!"

I love poker. But I don't want to play it live more than a few times a month. People that you play with are mostly annoying. Poker donks all say the same stuff in reaction to hands, and that gets WAYYY tedious… I actually think that people that are OK with grinding low stakes every night might be a little simple (What's up Whey?)

----Ha. I do like Whey's thread, and I probably play the game a little bit like him too. But I don't take photos of everything I eat, and it is a little narcissistic to post so many selfies (and to not be aware that you are really not movie-star handsome, but more like an effeminate version of CT from The Challenge…)
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Old 04-25-2015, 11:10 PM   #82
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Poker donks all say the same stuff in reaction to hands, and that gets WAYYY tedious… I actually think that people that are OK with grinding low stakes every night might be a little simple (What's up Whey?)

----Ha. I do like Whey's thread, and I probably play the game a little bit like him too. But I don't take photos of everything I eat, and it is a little narcissistic to post so many selfies (and to not be aware that you are really not movie-star handsome, but more like an effeminate version of CT from The Challenge…)
Wow - you should be paid to write backhanded insult compliments, McCutter.

Shots fired.
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Old 04-25-2015, 11:23 PM   #83
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

ha, come on. Did I say anything that didn't ring true?
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Old 04-25-2015, 11:44 PM   #84
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Old 04-26-2015, 12:00 AM   #85
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

hahah.
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:12 AM   #86
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCutter View Post
I think that the OP is making some good points. As with any thread on this site, a lot of self-righteous, and largely un-tested, young guys are trolling him. I have a career that is not in poker but whenever I have played more than 4 days in a row in Vegas, no matter whether I have won a lot or lost some, I am like "get me the F@$% out of here!"

I love poker. But I don't want to play it live more than a few times a month. People that you play with are mostly annoying. Poker donks all say the same stuff in reaction to hands, and that gets WAYYY tedious…
I believe this post hits at the nature of the issue. More age and wisdom makes this understandable, but the "young, dumb, and full of cum" generation that proliferates this site prefers to believe that any admission of difficulty implies failure.
All the OP was saying was that the game is fine, but the grind was unbearable.
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:54 AM   #87
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I had to google what "The Challenge" is because I'm too old.
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Old 04-26-2015, 01:48 AM   #88
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCutter View Post
I think that the OP is making some good points. As with any thread on this site, a lot of self-righteous, and largely un-tested, young guys are trolling him. I have a career that is not in poker but whenever I have played more than 4 days in a row in Vegas, no matter whether I have won a lot or lost some, I am like "get me the F@$% out of here!"

I love poker. But I don't want to play it live more than a few times a month. People that you play with are mostly annoying.
McCutter, what do you do for a living?
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Old 04-26-2015, 01:58 AM   #89
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Op, both in his post and in his responses seems to know what he is talking about
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:48 AM   #90
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

OP can be pessimistic and accurate at same time. Pessimism and accuracy can coexist. Why is it so hard for people to grasp this concept?
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Old 04-26-2015, 12:27 PM   #91
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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ha, come on. Did I say anything that didn't ring true?
Ive played with small stakes regulars who were Stanford professors, top lawyers/doctors/real estate brokers/incredible entrepreneurs ect ect..Come on man..You're totally full of yourself..Ive also played a ton of high stakes with all kinds of degenerate boring fools.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:34 PM   #92
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

What's the difference between wisdom, knowledge, smarts, and intellect?

What's the difference between the sensationalization of poker and poker reality?

We're all victims of our own experiences. It seems, to me, OP has the experience. It seems, to me, OP has wisdom. But, of course, YMMV.

Negreanu believes the best 2/5 players make $30/hour. I suppose you can make more if you're in that elite group of players and expert in game selection ... but if you're game selecting to that degree, you can't put in enough hours because you just don't play when the game you're looking for isn't running.

Daniel said this ($30/hour) in an article published two days ago:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...t_from=&ucat=&

If you think differently, you may be right. But I believe you're in the "sucked in by the sensationalization of poker" group. So, I wish you luck and I hope to never see you at my table.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:41 PM   #93
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by DiceyPlay View Post
What's the difference between wisdom, knowledge, smarts, and intellect?

What's the difference between the sensationalization of poker and poker reality?

We're all victims of our own experiences. It seems, to me, OP has the experience. It seems, to me, OP has wisdom. But, of course, YMMV.

Negreanu believes the best 2/5 players make $30/hour. I suppose you can make more if you're in that elite group of players and expert in game selection ... but if you're game selecting to that degree, you can't put in enough hours because you just don't play when the game you're looking for isn't running.

Daniel said this ($30/hour) in an article published two days ago:

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poke...t_from=&ucat=&

If you think differently, you may be right. But I believe you're in the "sucked in by the sensationalization of poker" group. So, I wish you luck and I hope to never see you at my table.
I have a sample of almost 8k hrs poast black friday that says significantly more than 30/hr. Not a brag - just saying that Danny pulled that number out of his anus
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:43 PM   #94
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Daniel doesn't know how much 2/5 players make nor did he claim to in that article.
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Old 04-26-2015, 06:53 PM   #95
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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I have a sample of almost 8k hrs poast black friday that says significantly more than 30/hr. Not a brag - just saying that Danny pulled that number out of his anus
Black Friday was April of 2011. So you'v averaged 38 hours a week of poker for the last 4 years?

I guess if I was running that good, I'd be able to put in that many hours too. I just can't seem to run that good - can't get and maintain that good a read on my opponents. 8K hours seems significant enough to me to indicate you're very good. But it's only 250K hands ... so I guess it could be just the bright side of variance.

Not a dig. Bravo! Keep it up! I'm envious ... can I learn?

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Originally Posted by NeverLosesAtPoker View Post
Daniel doesn't know how much 2/5 players make nor did he claim to in that article.
How do you know what Daniel knows? I'll go out on a limb and put more credence in Daniel when he's giving life advice about poker than I'll put in you're ability to climb into Daniel's head and know what he is thinking. And I don't know either one of you.

I'll assume Daniel knows that $30 is 6 Big Blinds in 2/5. The article hits pretty much exactly on the content of this thread.

Last edited by DiceyPlay; 04-26-2015 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:08 PM   #96
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

You are the one crediting Daniel for saying something that he never said. If you have to ask how I know what Daniel knows about this subject then you know a whole hell of a lot less about Daniel Negreanu than I do.

You are trying to make this a discussion between Negreanu and I but he is not involved in this conversation. He certainly would never claim to know more about 2/5 than Squid or myself.
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:12 PM   #97
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

All in all a good discussion
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:17 PM   #98
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by DiceyPlay View Post
Black Friday was April of 2011. So you'v averaged 38 hours a week of poker for the last 4 years?

I guess if I was running that good, I'd be able to put in that many hours too. I just can't seem to run that good - can't get and maintain that good a read on my opponents. 8K hours seems significant enough to me to indicate you're very good. But it's only 250K hands ... so I guess it could be just the bright side of variance.

Not a dig. Bravo! Keep it up! I'm envious ... can I learn?

Last year I played 2150 hrs. Due to some health issues this year it will be closer to 1500. Have been playing full time as sole source of income for a very long time. I no longer coach new students however, next time you are in vegas pm me and I will be happy do so a sweat session for you no charge...just cuz I'm cool like that.

on a side note I know most vegas pros and the w/r's for the guys whose games I respect is significantly higher than DN's guess

best regards
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Old 04-26-2015, 07:24 PM   #99
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Nice post - thanks for the insights.
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Old 04-26-2015, 11:57 PM   #100
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Just finished reading the entire thread where I found the link to DN's article.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...r-pro-1527691/

I was wrong - It appears $30/hour in 2/5 is low for an excellent player. Or may be it's low for an average player - idk?

The thread is long and gets derailed - but it's interesting. DN contributes to it.

The last post in the thread is interesting:

Quote:
Originally Posted by limon View Post
everything in that negreanu post was basically true. lol.

I hate to put anybody on blast but Ive hung out with a lot of poker players over the last decade, on and off the table, plenty of the "$50 an hour is easy in 2-5" guys. Well $50 and hour is $100k a year basically tax free. None of em live like a single dude clearing 100k+ a year. Not even close. These same ballers get alligator arms when the bill comes and sweat their ass off over $10 a hole golf bets while tweeting all day trying to sell pieces in a $500 tourney. laughable.
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