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Old 04-21-2015, 02:04 AM   #51
jinx702
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Both lists seem to have truth to them, but both forgot that you play better when you have at least one beer per session.
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:06 AM   #52
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by jinx702 View Post
Both lists seem to have truth to them, but both forgot that you play better when you have at least one beer per session.
or some jack
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Old 04-21-2015, 03:30 AM   #53
Dominic
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

For me, it's some Captain Morgan
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Old 04-21-2015, 04:46 AM   #54
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I wonder when is the last time he played 2/5.
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Old 04-21-2015, 04:54 AM   #55
NeverLosesAtPoker
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Very good post Dominic.

I do disagree about the jackpot drop though. Weaker competition can more than make up for an increase in rake. (Speaking in general. I don't know anything specific about the level of play at Vegas rooms with jackpot drops).
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Old 04-21-2015, 05:31 AM   #56
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

good post dom
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Old 04-21-2015, 05:54 AM   #57
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
Here are some real tips from someone who has either played for a living or as a supplement to other income over the last 11 years:
  • 1. You have to love the game. I mean love it. You have to be jazzed as you drive to the poker room, itching to sit down and buy some chips. If you don't, you will be miserable.
  • 2. If, like OP, you are only making $13 an hour playing 2/5 over a large sample size, you need to do two things: study your ass off and get some help, because you are not good enough to survive as a pro...and, GET A ****ING JOB. You can still play poker, but believe me, the stress of having to make that nut will be immensely lowered.
  • 3. If you have packed up and come to Vegas instead of going to college, at least take a few classes, Dude. You need a forward motion to your life, some goals, that are not tied to the size of your bankroll. One day, poker will be over. What will you have to show for it?
  • 4. If you're over age 30 and you're giving it a shot, go for it - as long as all you have to be responsible for is yourself. You do not want to be put in a position where you have to choose between playing poker and paying for your daughter's ballet lessons. Because, really, that ain't no choice at all.
  • 5. Find a significant other who understands what it is you do. If he/she does not, be a man and move on to someone who does.
  • 6. Stay out of the pit.
  • 7. Take advantage of comps.
  • 8. Make your main room one that does not have a jackpot drop. You might think it doesn't matter, but one night keep track of the dollars that disappear down that drop on the pots you win. Trust me, you won't want to play in that room again.
  • 9. If you like drinking while playing, limit it to one night a week and have fun. Don't drink the other nights.
  • 10. Exercise daily.
  • 11. Find another hobby that is not tied to poker. Golf, cross-fit, church, bookstore readings, guns, comic books, whatever. Poker will not fulfill your life if that's all you have in it.
  • 12. Put down some roots. If the place you live is just a room with a bed that you come to when you're not playing poker, you will be miserable. Make a home. A comfortable place that you could actually entertain friends in. You know...if you actually had some friends.
  • 13. Make some friends.
  • 14. Do not pass on the other great things this town has to offer (concerts, shows, great restaurants, outdoor activities, etc.) because you "have to play poker." Poker will always be there, any time of the day. Go do something else tonight. It's ok.
  • 15. Tip. But don't over-tip.
All of this is absolutely spot on! Awesome post.

Can't stress this enough: "Do not pass on the other great things this town has to offer (concerts, shows, great restaurants, outdoor activities, etc.) because you "have to play poker." Poker will always be there, any time of the day. Go do something else tonight. It's ok."

Playing poker for a living can very easily become a lonely existence, especially during a downswing. SO PLEASE GO HAVE SOME FUN, or you will regret it!
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:43 AM   #58
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Solid post Dominic
B
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Old 04-21-2015, 10:48 AM   #59
Texas Boredem
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominic View Post
  • 1. You have to love the game. I mean love it. You have to be jazzed as you drive to the poker room, itching to sit down and buy some chips. If you don't, you will be miserable.


  • 5. Find a significant other who understands what it is you do. If he/she does not, be a man and move on to someone who does.

Overall your list is strong, but #1 I have to take issue with..I've been a pro for 25 years..I LOVED poker before I made to move to play fulltime and pay the bills off my winnings. After maybe 6 months that love started fading. But don't get me wrong, I love that I havnt had a boss for 25 years..I love that early on in my poker career I was able to buy my house off my earnings. I love that since then Ive also been able to buy other real estate and now am set for life..But if I want to spend big money on our family adventures, I need that constant flow of income..So I continue on playing poker..

You don't need love for the game..

#5 is a crucial item that I picked up in the middle of my career and It makes the grind seem so easy.

Last edited by Texas Boredem; 04-21-2015 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 04-22-2015, 01:42 AM   #60
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I appreciate that OPs list may be true for him and some other people, though not for all. Feel kinda bad for the guy who went out on a limb to provide a more contrarian, albeit perhaps overly pessimistic view on the grind.

Dom's list resonates strongly with me and I think has a lot of gold in it. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:42 AM   #61
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DollarStoreBaller View Post
Feel kinda bad for the guy who went out on a limb to provide a more contrarian, albeit perhaps overly pessimistic view on the grind.
I wouldn't feel too bad for him. He posts in Politics Unchained so this stuff is probably peanuts to him.
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Old 04-22-2015, 08:25 PM   #62
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by DollarStoreBaller View Post
I appreciate that OPs list may be true for him and some other people, though not for all. Feel kinda bad for the guy who went out on a limb to provide a more contrarian, albeit perhaps overly pessimistic view on the grind.
It wasn't contrarian. Posts like his are common on 2+2.

And it wasn't pessimistic (a mere view), it was irrational, in that he was blaming the game for his own problems and shortcomings.

If I bet a basketball game and then say "I shouldn't have done that, I'm going to lose," I'm being pessimistic.

If I do lose and say, "It's because I got mustard on my shirt yesterday," I'm being irrational.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:48 PM   #63
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMC View Post

If I bet a basketball game and then say "I shouldn't have done that, I'm going to lose," I'm being pessimistic.

If I do lose and say, "It's because I got mustard on my shirt yesterday," I'm being irrational.
And if you win you're a genius.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:50 PM   #64
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Did you just play no limit? It's much harder to survive playing only 1 game. If you can play even 6 games or more, I think you'd have a better shot of sticking with poker because of better game selection and less chance of poker boring you
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:51 PM   #65
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
sorry you were no good at poker and went busto
this. I will admit your experience is far from unique but it's a personal outcome of your skills/discipline.
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Old 04-22-2015, 11:55 PM   #66
NeverLosesAtPoker
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

There's a lot of truth in OP's post. Many that try to grind poker for a living will not enjoy it and the vast majority will eventually fail at this endeavor. IMO, if you want to pursue poker as a career then by all means go for it but don't be surprised when you discover it isn't all roses.

I know a lot of talented grinders between the ages of 18 and 23 that essentially play poker full time. It's a great thing at that age because they are making sick money for a college student. However, most of them are way too talented to play poker long term and would be far better off pursuing more lucrative professions.
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:40 AM   #67
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I say the same to solid poker pros and law professionals (many of whom find an eventual distaste for their profession); if you have the skill set for success in this than you could very likely succeed in many pursuits, some far more financially lucrative. I just love the game/playing...if poker didn't exist I'd probably be a failed chess master who couldn't compete with the wizards. A ton of people without much knowledge and little to no passion for the game see it as an out to some kind of freedom they lack that will solve all the other issues in their personalities and life...that kind of disillusioned view is almost destined for failure. Poker won't 'fix' anyone and can make many problems more pronounced. The same thing occurs in medical fields where students often drive themselves through a decade of school/internship/residency with no passion for it but fixated on this idea that when they 'make it' the success and money will solve all that...met many that regret the entire process.
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:44 AM   #68
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

*for the record poker has caused issues to my physical and mental health at times, like anything it requires assessment/readjustment to maintain healthy balances.
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:48 AM   #69
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Forgot to mention I'm ridiculously happy with/enjoy my life for the most part haha
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:00 AM   #70
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Find things that make you happy that have absolutely nothing to do with money.
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Old 04-23-2015, 09:25 AM   #71
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by JHair View Post
Find things that make you happy that have absolutely nothing to do with money.
That's the point OP misses. He wasn't going to be happy no matter what. it wasn't his thing. Grinders don't mind all the objections he made so they stay. You can assemble cars all day long and be happy doing it and not getting rich.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:23 PM   #72
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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It wasn't contrarian. Posts like his are common on 2+2.

And it wasn't pessimistic (a mere view), it was irrational, in that he was blaming the game for his own problems and shortcomings.

If I bet a basketball game and then say "I shouldn't have done that, I'm going to lose," I'm being pessimistic.

If I do lose and say, "It's because I got mustard on my shirt yesterday," I'm being irrational.
I wonder if you understand most of the points I raised were observations? The reality is, I was successful by my understanding of it, I did not go broke, I made a living at it and I came out of it with out destroying myself. I think you have an irrational belief that anyone can do it, if they just follow some system or plan. Finally, I'm not sure how you can say I was blaming the game for problems or shortcomings because I never actually indicated any of my problems or shortcomings. My problem was risk tolerance but I do not blame the game for that. I think your opinion is with out merit.
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Old 04-24-2015, 11:25 PM   #73
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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That's the point OP misses. He wasn't going to be happy no matter what. it wasn't his thing. Grinders don't mind all the objections he made so they stay. You can assemble cars all day long and be happy doing it and not getting rich.
I think the point you miss is that not many people at all would be happy with the lifestyle and the happiness often overwhelmingly gets sacrificed for survival.
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Old 04-25-2015, 03:29 AM   #74
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

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Originally Posted by braves2017 View Post
I came to Vegas a few years ago with the ambition of playing poker to earn my way through this world. Here are my conclusions:

1. Everything is a hustle inside of the gambling environment. Everything.
2. It's a lonely existence, if you are smart and keep number 1 in mind.
3. Poker, at least at low-stakes will become incredibly boring and easy.
4. You will play higher stakes as a result of number 3.
5. Playing higher stakes will bankrupt you. You are not MooreMoney19.
6. Always have an out.
7. Nothing will prepare you for the psychological mind****.
8. You will not respond well to the psychological mind****.
9. Success will require you to almost be perfectly psychologically balanced
10. Lack of number 9 will result in bad decisions.
11 You must be incredibly lucky not **** it because of your bad decisions.
12. Even if you get lucky, you will make bad decisions again.
13. You will eventually run out of luck, probably sooner rather than later.
14. You will be so focused on money, nothing else will matter.
15. You will become a slave to poker and it does not care about you. ]
16. No sane person would ever call this lifestyle a dream.

Obviously there are no positives. I stopped playing poker regularly one or two years ago. It is now I write this with reflection and I do not miss it and can not think of one positive thing I gained from it, other than a living.
I think this thread is perfect for 2+2 because it provides 2 viewpoints of the fulltime poker lifestyle in Vegas. Here's my viewpoint of the negative point of view:
1. You can say the same about life in general. People hustle to get ahead in life, work, and in social environments. ABC baby! Always be closing! Either with women, employers/customers (depending on your work), or even with everyday people you meet because you always want to show that you are a high value person!
2. You need friends outside of poker and at work (inside of poker.) If you don't want poker player friends because you don't trust people, make friends with dealers and floor people. Social interaction and relationships are a basic human need.
3. Learn to profitably play different games other than NL hold'em. Not only does it help with the boredom, but it keeps your mind and poker game sharp by creating a challenge and let's you look at the game from different angles.
4. Good! That is the long term growth plan, isn't it?
5. Don't be afraid to move back down if you run into trouble. Be flexible and adjust according to your comfort level and bankroll. Moving up doesn't have to be 1/2nl to 10/20nl. There are levels in between these two.
6. Basic lesson for life in general.
7. Running a small business is similar to poker in a lot of ways, including psychologically. 90% of small businesses fail and 90%+ of poker players fail so it's a similar psychological challenge. Some people are just not ready for it.
8. You clearly are not ready for it but that doesn't mean others can't handle it.
9. Controlling tilt is a big part of poker. It's also a part of life. If you tilt in life and stab/shoot someone, you will have problems. Same goes for poker tilt.
10. Again, a personal problem with people. Not a poker specific issue. Drugs, alcohol, women, and bad life decisions happen outside of the poker world.
11, 12. Same as above.
13. Same can be said for people who are unemployed, had broken relationships, and just messed up life outside of poker too. Life is luck and luck is preparedness meeting opportunity.
14. For me, it's actually the opposite. I lost the sense of value in money. When you bet hundreds/thousands of dollars a hand, you don't care so much about spending $100 on a dinner or an extra couple hundred on show tickets or sports tickets. You begin to enjoy life more and not be so concerned with price tags.
15. The opposite is true for me. Poker gave me freedom which I didn't have at my previous job. I couldn't take a day or half day of whenever something more fun came up. I couldn't take a vacation for over a month when I had the money to do so in my previous job. With poker, I can come and go as I please without worrying about maintaining relationships with a boss or customers.
16. I'm sure even being George Lucas, Bill Gates, or Lebron James has tough things associated to the lifestyle. No, you're not jetsetting around the world playing tournaments and partying all night but what lifestyle is really a dream? If there was a dream I wanted, I would pursue it but poker is a comfortable lifestyle for me

I feel that you just weren't very good at poker so it was difficult for you. If you were making just $13/hr at 2/5nl, you were't very good and clearly could have been making the same money in a basic retail job or as a server at a restaurant. You should have been making close to double that at $1/2nl if you were playing full time and were putting in the effort and hours learning and developing. Obviously if you were making more money, you would have enjoyed it more, would have had a higher feeling of self worth and success, and life would have been easier in other ways since you would have more financial freedom and less stress.
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Old 04-25-2015, 04:29 AM   #75
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Good points mrducks
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