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Old 04-19-2015, 12:03 AM   #1
braves2017
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some tips for those seeking the dream....

I came to Vegas a few years ago with the ambition of playing poker to earn my way through this world. Here are my conclusions:

1. Everything is a hustle inside of the gambling environment. Everything.
2. It's a lonely existence, if you are smart and keep number 1 in mind.
3. Poker, at least at low-stakes will become incredibly boring and easy.
4. You will play higher stakes as a result of number 3.
5. Playing higher stakes will bankrupt you. You are not MooreMoney19.
6. Always have an out.
7. Nothing will prepare you for the psychological mind****.
8. You will not respond well to the psychological mind****.
9. Success will require you to almost be perfectly psychologically balanced
10. Lack of number 9 will result in bad decisions.
11 You must be incredibly lucky not **** it because of your bad decisions.
12. Even if you get lucky, you will make bad decisions again.
13. You will eventually run out of luck, probably sooner rather than later.
14. You will be so focused on money, nothing else will matter.
15. You will become a slave to poker and it does not care about you. ]
16. No sane person would ever call this lifestyle a dream.

Obviously there are no positives. I stopped playing poker regularly one or two years ago. It is now I write this with reflection and I do not miss it and can not think of one positive thing I gained from it, other than a living.

Last edited by braves2017; 04-19-2015 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:29 AM   #2
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Thanks for the post. Can we expect a follow up with actual tips? This is effectively just ranting about your own experience, rather than what someone could (or should) do to become a better professional.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:09 AM   #3
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

sorry you were no good at poker and went busto
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:35 AM   #4
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Funny poker players are about stats but they get into a game that only 1% survive. Just look at the graveyard of all the poker challenges started by younger people who want to be pros.
I played for a living from 20 to 28, It's a miserable fing life. You have no social life as the fish tend to play the weekends which is prime for social hours at that age. When I was winning it was stressful and obviously the same when losing. I work full time at something I enjoy doing and play for fun as that's the way it should be.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:43 AM   #5
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by afwestco View Post
Thanks for the post. Can we expect a follow up with actual tips? This is effectively just ranting about your own experience, rather than what someone could (or should) do to become a better professional.
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
sorry you were no good at poker and went busto
I think the tip is rather obvious. I did not go "busto", I quit because I was not cut out for it based on my observations.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:44 AM   #6
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
Funny poker players are about stats but they get into a game that only 1% survive. Just look at the graveyard of all the poker challenges started by younger people who want to be pros.
I played for a living from 20 to 28, It's a miserable fing life. You have no social life as the fish tend to play the weekends which is prime for social hours at that age. When I was winning it was stressful and obviously the same when losing. I work full time at something I enjoy doing and play for fun as that's the way it should be.
Yeah, I witnessed some of the grinders who been doing it longer than me, their entire life is dedicated to poker which only works for very few people as it is, add in life leaks and that number gets even smaller.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:54 AM   #7
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Poker is fine if you are playing to get some income. Lots of hours are required and grinders will usually play concentrated blocks of time aka months then take time off and move back to a hometown. But yeah there's only 1 reason to play usually it's money. And the money can be good to great.
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Old 04-19-2015, 03:42 AM   #8
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Everything's a grind and if you work a job with shelter then you also work a job where someone else can take it all away from you. There's nothing wrong with doing poker for a few years and then dropping it for something that has become better. People change what they do, sometimes when they want to, sometimes not, none of it matters so long as you take care of any responsibilities you acquire along the way. The only outs are being born into money or being mentally skewed enough that you actually enjoy doing something that in general people have to be paid money to do.
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:36 AM   #9
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

TL:dr?

OP Couldn't handle Vegas.

OP thinks everyone is like him.

Even if 10% of people reading this are like OP - he's helped someone.

OP clearly speaking broadly to rationalize his own demise and make it feel normalized to the common denominator so as to not feel like his experience was below par.

Many peeps not named MooreMoney19 who make nice livings on the grind - but it's not for everyone and clearly wasn't for OP
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:50 AM   #10
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I still live in Vegas, there is nothing wrong with Vegas.

Quote:
Many peeps not named MooreMoney19 who make nice livings on the grind - but it's not for everyone and clearly wasn't for OP
Not that the rest is based on anything of substance but this is so inaccurate. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Not sure why you would lie to people and make it seem like the grinders make nice livings. Half of them are staked (or begging for stakes) and the other half have other issues (drugs/pits), maybe like a very small percentage "make nice money" and majority are just hustlers looking for the next score or easy mark...my experience not with standing, this is the reality.

The people making nice money are playing 10-20 and if you check there aren't many of those games running. 5-10 you are lucky to find a decent table out of maybe five available in Vegas. 2/5 is where you can make some money but your not making much more than 15-20/hr if you can get decent volume at decent tables on the weekends and your rate drops significantly during the week. On average I made 13.75/hr primary playing 2/5...that's hardly "nice money" and its not enough to grow a roll.

It's obvious you have no idea what its like to be a grinder.

Last edited by braves2017; 04-19-2015 at 05:02 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:20 AM   #11
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Or maybe we know different people.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:31 AM   #12
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natamus View Post
Or maybe we know different people.
That is the thing, unless there is something magical happening since I've been out of the game, the grinder community is extremely small. Maybe, maybe on average there is 15 total 2/5 games running in Vegas at any giving time...the pool of professionals cant not be that big. When I played, you could get maybe 3 5/10 games at the belagaio and one 5/10 at the V. I have to be honest, I'm not sure how aria stacks up but from what I understand, they get most of the higher action nowadays....which is normally one or two tables. The game count is way too low for there to be many professionals that are doing well. My guess is you are talking about part-time players and confusing them with playing full time.

I'd be willing to bet you do not know 10 people who have lasted 2 years and probably only know 1-2 who have lasted five who have played full-time.

Last edited by braves2017; 04-19-2015 at 05:41 AM.
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Old 04-19-2015, 06:52 AM   #13
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

I don't disagree with you in general, but your $13/hr winrate at 2/5 is bad, and nowhere near indicative of a good grinder's rate. My 1/2 rate is close to double that.

That being said, I've determined each time I've tried, that playing full time just isn't for me.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:02 AM   #14
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Okay, braves, you obviously know everything there is to know and everyone there is to know regarding grinding in Vegas.

You're the all knowing all seeing Zoltar
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:21 AM   #15
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Natamus View Post
Okay, braves, you obviously know everything there is to know and everyone there is to know regarding grinding in Vegas.

You're the all knowing all seeing Zoltar
If you actually provided some insight instead of criticizing me then you'd have a point. I'm curious, how many grinders who play full time do you know that has lasted more than two years? Please share? I mean your first post in this thread made a lot of assumptions about me....so I figured maybe you were Zoltar but I guess you soon realized that I knew what the **** I was talking about.


I do not think you've provided any credible information that "many peeps not named MooreMoney19 who make nice livings on the grind". Do not make silly assumptions if you have no desire to back them up. I know you cant prove anything, neither can I but at least you can do for the community is not make grinding sound like anyone can do it. Its a very difficult and challenging environment where you may have anywhere between 30-60 pros who are hacking it at any giving time at the low-mid stakes, if that.
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Old 04-19-2015, 07:36 AM   #16
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by braves2017 View Post
but at least you can do for the community is not make grinding sound like anyone can do it.
I didn't. You're just offended and spouting off without a filter.
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Old 04-19-2015, 10:29 AM   #17
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by braves2017 View Post
I still live in Vegas, there is nothing wrong with Vegas.



Not that the rest is based on anything of substance but this is so inaccurate. Do you have any idea what you are talking about? Not sure why you would lie to people and make it seem like the grinders make nice livings. Half of them are staked (or begging for stakes) and the other half have other issues (drugs/pits), maybe like a very small percentage "make nice money" and majority are just hustlers looking for the next score or easy mark...my experience not with standing, this is the reality.

The people making nice money are playing 10-20 and if you check there aren't many of those games running. 5-10 you are lucky to find a decent table out of maybe five available in Vegas. 2/5 is where you can make some money but your not making much more than 15-20/hr if you can get decent volume at decent tables on the weekends and your rate drops significantly during the week. On average I made 13.75/hr primary playing 2/5...that's hardly "nice money" and its not enough to grow a roll.

It's obvious you have no idea what its like to be a grinder.

As I said in my original post -I am sorry you are no good at poker
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:21 PM   #18
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Poker sucks, we all know that, only a very very tiny small percentage of players are actual winners, everybody else are looosers including me.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:28 PM   #19
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

One of the dumbest OP's in recent memory. "Obviously there are no positives" lol
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:46 PM   #20
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by squid face View Post
sorry you were no good at poker and went busto
I doubt a decent hourly would have changed OP's thesis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thousand Tigers View Post
One of the dumbest OP's in recent memory. "Obviously there are no positives" lol
I do think new live players underestimate all of the things besides actual poker skill that go into making it playing live in Vegas.
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Old 04-19-2015, 01:53 PM   #21
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
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I do think new live players underestimate all of the things besides actual poker skill that go into making it playing live in Vegas.
I agree, but that conversation shouldn't produce a list like the OP's.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:09 PM   #22
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BOHICA View Post
I doubt a decent hourly would have changed OP's thesis.



I do think new live players underestimate all of the things besides actual poker skill that go into making it playing live in Vegas.

13.75 is pretty horrible for a "pro". I doubt he's be quite so sour if he were banging out 50+/hr.

I could not agree more with your second statement tough...that is right on the mark!

Many of you know that I discourage all young dudes thinking of "turning pro" to do so. The landscape has in fact changed significantly - and it is a never ending grind that can be lonely as hell. I think it is a great part time gig to supplement income...as a full time long term gig very few last
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Old 04-19-2015, 04:50 PM   #23
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

OP did you have any history of depression or mental illness prior to playing poker? Poker seems to draw these sort of people but at the same time is a pretty poor path for someone who struggles emotionally.

I do think you brought up some very valid points. Most people don't understand what they are getting into with poker. That being said, I also think part of the reason it was such a bad experience for you was because you weren't a good enough player to play full time. The fact that you found it necessary to avoid weekday games is proof of that.
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Old 04-19-2015, 05:51 PM   #24
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by braves2017 View Post
I came to Vegas a few years ago with the ambition of playing poker to earn my way through this world. Here are my conclusions:

1. Everything is a hustle inside of the gambling environment. Everything.
2. It's a lonely existence, if you are smart and keep number 1 in mind.
3. Poker, at least at low-stakes will become incredibly boring and easy.
4. You will play higher stakes as a result of number 3.
5. Playing higher stakes will bankrupt you. You are not MooreMoney19.
6. Always have an out.
7. Nothing will prepare you for the psychological mind****.
8. You will not respond well to the psychological mind****.
9. Success will require you to almost be perfectly psychologically balanced
10. Lack of number 9 will result in bad decisions.
11 You must be incredibly lucky not **** it because of your bad decisions.
12. Even if you get lucky, you will make bad decisions again.
13. You will eventually run out of luck, probably sooner rather than later.
14. You will be so focused on money, nothing else will matter.
15. You will become a slave to poker and it does not care about you. ]
16. No sane person would ever call this lifestyle a dream.

Obviously there are no positives. I stopped playing poker regularly one or two years ago. It is now I write this with reflection and I do not miss it and can not think of one positive thing I gained from it, other than a living.
You could have just said don't. Are you paid by the word?
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:31 PM   #25
2M2MM
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Re: some tips for those seeking the dream....

Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveActionPro View Post
Funny poker players are about stats but they get into a game that only 1% survive. Just look at the graveyard of all the poker challenges started by younger people who want to be pros.
I played for a living from 20 to 28, It's a miserable fing life. You have no social life as the fish tend to play the weekends which is prime for social hours at that age. When I was winning it was stressful and obviously the same when losing. I work full time at something I enjoy doing and play for fun as that's the way it should be.
What do you do for a living that you enjoy now? Was it difficult to make the lifestyle adjustment/transition? In what ways do you feel your life improved? Why did you leave poker? Were you still winning when you left? What pushed you over the edge to do something else?

I am considering leaving poker and would like your insight! Thanks
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